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upper walls not recognized in energy model structures

heathldesign
Expert

hey all,

I have a model and for the first time, i'm playing with the energy evaluation, yipee. i have a single zone applied to the whole floor area, and when i update the zone in the energy model review i can see a list of structures that it has captured, the roofs, floor slab, and the lower exterior walls. but i have pony walls on the roof story that it doesn't capture. they are on the same layer as the main floor walls, their later is turned on in the energy evaluation layer group, the walls are on the roof story and the zone extends up into the roof story. why are they not captured?

see the pics


Screenshot 2023-05-24 at 16.31.39.pngScreenshot 2023-05-24 at 16.31.17.png
MAC Studio 2022 M1 Max, 32 GB RAM, 10 cores, AC26 5003 Apple Silicon USA
11 REPLIES 11
Barry Kelly
Moderator

Zones can span multiple storeys in 3D, but if I am not mistaken they do not show on all related stories.

Therefore the other storeys do not recognise the zone.

I think you have to place a separate zone on each storey.

 

Barry.

One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 27
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Lenovo Thinkpad - i7-1270P 2.20 GHz, 32GB RAM, Nvidia T550, Windows 11

Hi Barry,

nope. i created a new zone for the vault area or the roof storey, made sure the main floor zone is linked to the roof storey and the roof zone base is set to 0", it's cropped to the roof and it all looks good, but the upper walls do not show in the energy model 3d, and the wall structures are not listed.

MAC Studio 2022 M1 Max, 32 GB RAM, 10 cores, AC26 5003 Apple Silicon USA

now no walls appear! i can see the zones and they are cropped correctly, the roof and slab appear in the structure list, i can select the roof and slabs in the structure list and they are highlighted in 3D but no walls at all. i have quite archicad and repaired the model and restarted my computer. and now this. i don't have time for this.

MAC Studio 2022 M1 Max, 32 GB RAM, 10 cores, AC26 5003 Apple Silicon USA

deleted the zones and started again. right back to where to was last night. the upper walls in the roof storey are not being captured.

 

MAC Studio 2022 M1 Max, 32 GB RAM, 10 cores, AC26 5003 Apple Silicon USA

so for some reason, that must be related to the issue, the roof zone is not the same footprint as the main floor zone. see pic. i have been very careful and checked. both zones were drawn with the construction method to the core elements, not the finish. both the upper and lower walls are the same composite, both on the same layer, both storey views are set to the same layer combination, i have updated both zones in the thermal block. both zones are in the same thermal block, though i did try them in separate blocks. two questions then

 

1. what other settings do i need to check to get the upper walls to capture?

2. why do the two zones have different footprints? 

 


Screenshot 2023-05-25 at 12.07.09.png
MAC Studio 2022 M1 Max, 32 GB RAM, 10 cores, AC26 5003 Apple Silicon USA

I am not going to be of much help as I have not used the energy evaluation.

Sounds like you have the zones positioned properly.

But if the zone areas are not matching, is it because the upper walls and the upper zone heights do not match?

 

Barry.

 

One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 27
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Lenovo Thinkpad - i7-1270P 2.20 GHz, 32GB RAM, Nvidia T550, Windows 11

Say it isn’t so! Barry, you have come through so many times for me. I guess you’re only human, such a shock.

I have looked closely at the wall junctions, and I do know that something isn’t quite right with the two gables. The long wall parallel to the roof slope joins seamlessly with the wall below, the the gable wall joints are visible in 3d and sections so I know something isn’t right, but I can’t for the life of me figure it out. I have checked elevation, and alignment with the wall below, redrawn them veeeeeery carefully and still there is a visible joint. However, I don’t think that explains why the walls on the roof storey aren’t capturing in the energy model. At this rate, I may not be able to use ac energy evaluation myself. Learning a new tool is often a challenge, but when you can’t even get out of the gate, it doesn’t bode well. PHPP is a lot of work, but but at least it does work.

MAC Studio 2022 M1 Max, 32 GB RAM, 10 cores, AC26 5003 Apple Silicon USA

so, anybody?

 

MAC Studio 2022 M1 Max, 32 GB RAM, 10 cores, AC26 5003 Apple Silicon USA

ok, i'm getting really fed up with AC26. for whatever reason, i now have the upper walls captured. i deleted the zones, quit AC, restarted and repaired the model, placed new zones etc. and now the upper walls are captured. goodie. i have no idea what the issue was. BUT... the instructions say that all objects that are not part of the envelope, like beams, columns etc. must be on hidden layers. done. i have a composite roof with a separate uninsulated a drop ceiling, specifically made this way because i don't want it to be referenced in the energy evaluation, the ceiling is on it's own layer and i have that layer hidden in the energy evaluation layer combo. the instructions also warn of not having these parallel surfaces and if one must, that that layer is hidden. i must and it is hidden. so what i have to deal with now, is that because the zones are automatically relating to the wall finish, in this case gypsum board, regardless of how i place them or any manual changes to the zone boundary, and because my drop ceiling is merged with the walls, which it needs to do to be correctly represented on the plans, the wall structures have holes where the drop ceiling meets them. see pic. also notice that the shower pan has left a hole in the slab structure even though it's layer is hidden. i can't have holes in the structures in an energy model for obvious reasons. so what's the solution or work around? 

Screenshot 2023-05-29 at 16.03.59.png

MAC Studio 2022 M1 Max, 32 GB RAM, 10 cores, AC26 5003 Apple Silicon USA