Rendering with ArtLantis!!!! but which ArtLantis?

[Anonymous]

can anyone tell me which version of artlantis should i use
i dont know which one does what and which should i buy?
i have ARTLANTIS 4.5 and Im waiting for v. 5.0
but i heard that there are versions like ArtLantis R and ArtLantis classic
what are all these and which one should i use?
is there a version that compines all these?

thank you

[Anonymous]

Pawel

First of all I have no inside info whatsoever, so this is pure conjecture.

Artlantis has traditionally relied heavily on ArchiCAD

in http://www.artlantis.com/products/artlantisR/details.php?cat=2
you can read "ArchiCAD, VectorWorks and SketchUp, the major Abvent partners in the CAD Architecture world, export directly to Artlantis format. This direct link provides more complete and better quality data recovery than by going through a classic exchange format."

On the other hand, on their recent survey in http://www.abvent.com/community/survey/results_survey_detail.php?id_sondage=1
you can see that their users are thus distributed:
"Question 21 - My favorite modeler is
A : ArchiCAD : 100
B : AutoCAD : 6
C : VectorWorks : 12
D : Revit : 1
E : Chief Architect : 0
F : SketchUp : 35
G : Arc+ : 6
H : Allplan : 1
O : Other… : 10"

More than half ArtLantis users use AC as a modeler

ArchiCAD's approach has been more and more specializing on construction stuff, and relying on partners to do all those other pesky stuff (maxonform is the most recent example, but also Sketchup, all Cigraphs products, and Artlantis).

If you accept this as the truth (or A truth, or A present truth) then you have to admit Graphisoft putting radiosity right now on Lightworks of AC would be a heavy blow to Abvent.

As they are partners (their words, not mine), I guess this partnership involves obligations on both parts.

So, my (educated) guess is, graphisoft wont do anything to harm Abvents main market. For now.

Why is this relevant? because, my friend, you do not use Artlantis and I do. Because I foresee that ArchiCADs rendering abilities will always be a step (or more) behind Artlantis ones, and I do not like to bet on a loosing horse.

But that is me...

[Anonymous]

Miguel,

I wrote that I'm not an ArtLantis user describing my present state but it doesn't mean I don't know the software or the company. Actually I have used it for four years during my studies with success. I considered Artlantis as my primary renderer and was about to buy it togehter with my licence of AC 9.0, so believe me, there is no need to convince me how great it is. However, don't you think that, putting lighworks engine in AC 9.0 was already "heavy blow" for Abvent. Don't get me wrong, it is not about the quality, they cannot be compare, but it is clear signal that Graphisoft is looking for it's own way of making advanced renderings in their own backyard. Being partners with Abvent was only about the direct export of geometry not the real loyality since ArtL accept other formats as well (just my speculation), so implementing radiosity won't harm Abvent's market much, cause they already have lots of dedicated users like you for example. The last thing that makes me think it is not just a temporary caprice - if graphisoft would like to keep it old way than they would just improve the plug-in instead of sinking money in no-future-renderer.
I don't have any source to prove my point - it's all my thoughts with a bit of speculation

[Anonymous]

tigr wrote:
However, don't you think that, putting lighworks engine in AC 9.0 was already "heavy blow" for Abvent. ... Being partners with Abvent was only about the direct export of geometry not the real loyality since ArtL accept other formats as well

Pawel

One thing is accepting other formats, another is having a dedicated interface. As for Sketchup (which also has no photorealistic rendering engine), Archicad exports directly to artlantis, which is not the same as using a 3ds or dwg general file format, I think this implies heavy cooperation between companies.

Graphisoft has to have an inside decent renderer, because competition also has it. This must be a fine juggling act, to satisfy customers who do not use outside renderers and to satisfy business partners who need archiCAD to survive. The outcome of this high wire act is, behold, lightworks inside AC9. I mean, is this engine to be taken seriously? rendering in 2005 without radiosity? If you think a bit about it, there is really only one conclusion. mine!

On the other hand, I might be wrong...
happened before, will happen again

maybe we will continue this argument when AC10 is out, to see who is on the right track

[Anonymous]

I don't think it is about who is (will be) right or wrong. Only donkey doesn't change his mind, but people might think that this magical radiosity is a remedy for all the problems and constant lack of time or render skills, which is NOT.
Outer renderers will always have one big disadvantage - they only visualize, so they're good for final production. Isn't our profession about constant looking for the best solutions, materials interactions, light/space relations, proportions etc., (and when I write "constant" I mean for the last moment before deadline) and if the rendering is the tool which supposed to help us and our clients understand better what we do than I need to use it as frequently as any other tool.
I think it was my point from the start, that it is better to have less advanced but strictly connected with the model renderer than one that doesn't like any model corrections. It will be nice to have 'radio in the city' but I can live without it, after all it is not only "bouncing light" that sells project, it's an idea.

BTW nice renders Miguel..

[Anonymous]

tigr wrote:
...and if the rendering is the tool which supposed to help us and our clients understand better what we do than I need to use it as frequently as any other tool.

Pawel

I agree when you say you want instant rendering while designing. So do I.
But computers are what they are, and it will still be some time till we have real time photorealistic rendering (look out for Playstation3, with cell technology. If they deliver what they are promising, the future might come quicker than we think).

Now for a myth: You (and most none artlantis users) say that having the rendering engine outside the modeler slows us down.

I do not agree. After all, they are all inside the same computer, on the same screen, accessible trough the same keyboard/pen/mouse. If you program your shortcuts rightly (zoom, pan, copy, paste, save, undo, etc) you wont even notice you are on a different program.
And if you do some changes to your model, you just open it with reference.

On the other hand, rendering on a renderer (!) allows you to move around much faster, assign materials and lights much easier, preview in real time, and with the new artlantis R, place objects you dont want to have on your main file - trees and cars and people and some furniture.

So, this idea that an outside renderer slows you down, I don't buy it, sorry

Ah, and don't underestimate the power of bouncing light. After all, according to some, its what architecture is all about...

[Thomas Holm]

Krippahl has a very good point. I used Artlantis before AC9. My main arguments against upgrading are 2:
1. I hate shelling out money.
2. I hate having to shell out more money, buying a "new program" when it's just a repackaged version of the old one. With the same bugs. Of course, this is essentially the same reason as #1, with the addition that I think Abvent is a sh*tty company with excellent software, and fantastic programmers.

But the company has an old habit of repackaging their software and making you pay for a "new" program instead of an upgrade. I've been their customer since 1986, so I know, and I hate it. BUT the software is (often) excellent!

So I decided to give Lightworks a chance - no extra cost. I was beginning to regret this when Dwight's book came out, but now I find it quite usable.

Krippahl: Is the old issue of material orientation gone in R? (in Artlantis4.5, you can't for example use the same facade material with different orientations on different sides of a buildiing - you have to duplicate and make a new material for each orientation)

[Anonymous]

Thomas wrote:
Krippahl: Is the old issue of material orientation gone in R? (in Artlantis4.5, you can't for example use the same facade material with different orientations on different sides of a buildiing - you have to duplicate and make a new material for each orientation)

Does this image answer your question

It is still not 100% (roofs are a b*gger), but its ok for most of the situations now.
And for roofs, you can import the shaders from ArchiCAD with the right orientation, thou I wont ...

[Rakela Raul]

u can apply materials to the building by: planes, orientation, objects, etc. and independently
so yes u can..if i understood the question right of course

[Anonymous]

look out for Playstation3

I really do, and another part of Final Fantasy

Now for a myth: You (and most none artlantis users) say that having the rendering engine outside the modeler slows us down.

Don't forget I used to be one, and you, did you really try to get to know lightworks?

On the other hand, rendering on a renderer (!) allows you to move around much faster

I don't complain about OpenGL, actually I prefer its stability over the ArtL rapid preview (call me fanatic)

assign materials and lights much easier

With my predefined shaders I do it in the fly when typing coordinates for walls/slabs/roofs...
The lights - also worked out some routines and now I barely change anything.

preview in real time

Agree, thats an advantage..

place objects you dont want to have on your main file - trees and cars and people and some furniture.

Layers were invented for this purpose. You can display different combinations in almost no time, but I guess you already know that..

Ah, and don't underestimate the power of bouncing light. After all, according to some, its what architecture is all about...

You missed the point, if I wouldn't be interested in light behaviour in my work I wouldn't invest in this http://www.maxwellrender.com/

[Anonymous]

tigr wrote:
Don't forget I used to be one, and you, did you really try to get to know lightworks?

No, I'm guilty there

And have you really tried ArtLantis R?