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TW2

Steve Jepson
Advisor
Tell me about TW2.

How is it different than logging into a server with a program like Adobe Acrobat Connect Pro or similar?

ArchiCAD 25 4013 USA - Windows 10 Pro 64x - Dell 7720 64 GB 2400MHz ECC - Xeon E3 1535M v6 4.20GHz - (2) 1TB M.2 PCIe Class 50 SSD's - 17.3" UHD IPS (3840x2160) - Nvidia Quadro P5000 16GB GDDR5 - Maxwell Studio/Render 5.2.1.49- Multilight 2 - Adobe Acrobat Pro

29 REPLIES 29

ares997
Newcomer
I think the teamwork 2 server is getting misconstrued a little bit in the hearsay. TW2 or the Delta Server Technology is far different than acrobat connect because it's not a screen sharing software.

Basically the delta server/tw2 is a method for exchanging information in a way that typically requires the transmission of all the information to a from the location where the information resides.

The server is where the information is stored. It isn't as if their is a server farm some where where the information is going to be placed and then you go there. It is the system you have located the teamwork file.

Say if today you have a 20mb file, if you send/recieve that information you have to transmit all that information back and forth from the location of the server.

Now you only transmit the information that you have changed. And the likely hood that you have changed 20mb of informatin in a days worth of work is probably not highly likely.

So if you changed 100 walls and moved them 6" but nothing else the transmission of information only contains that information in the process of send\ receive. Which is a big saving for everyone and hardware.

It really is the most advanced thing that has ever happened to the industry to date.

I have worked with teams all over the world and the hardest part is teamworking across the world in the current version because you have to not only find a place to hook up to a fast connection, have your server connected to VPN accelerator, then you have to dissect the model in teamwork alone and then tell people to get it and what the get then take it back and open it and send and receive based on the number team members you have...

TW2 is the future and it's here.
Archicad 23 (3003), Windows 10, AMD RYZEN 7 3900 (64 GB RAM)

Steve Jepson
Advisor
Thanks for the info.
I wasn't thinking so much about the screen sharing aspects.

File synchronization vs file exchange seems to be the main idea.

Can we use this for other file synch needs or for only for certain types of files ?

ArchiCAD 25 4013 USA - Windows 10 Pro 64x - Dell 7720 64 GB 2400MHz ECC - Xeon E3 1535M v6 4.20GHz - (2) 1TB M.2 PCIe Class 50 SSD's - 17.3" UHD IPS (3840x2160) - Nvidia Quadro P5000 16GB GDDR5 - Maxwell Studio/Render 5.2.1.49- Multilight 2 - Adobe Acrobat Pro

Karl Ottenstein
Moderator
Hi Steve,

It is not quite as described by ares997.

With a 20 MB TW file today, you would not be sending 20 MB back and forth anyway - only a much smaller draft TWC file - but the headaches involved in managing that from the central site are huge and well-known.

Watch all of the videos (the page expands to show even more videos on setup, etc) on TW2 to get a good overview. Whether it is the future or is step one towards the future, everyone will have to judge when they try it.

It is remarkably flexible because of (1) element level reservations, (2) no attributes or settings require exclusive access - but can be reserved like anything else, (3) the delta send/receive which makes the process not only very fast, but also enables remote access over the internet, (4) powerful user-capability assignment [see video screenshots], (5) dynamic messaging system, (6) ability to work with reserved or new elements 'offline' and S/R once reconnected to the network, (6) improved backup/restore capabilities, etc.

Also remarkable is that the server software can run on any machine, as seen in the videos - either someone's workstation in the case of a very small group, or dedicated machine, or an actual server.

Oh yeah, and as you can see in the videos, the clients and the server can be any mix of machines. In the video, they show a Dell/Windows server with iMac workstations, for example.

Commenting as I can only on what is public in the videos/etc so far, I can say that my only disappointment is that the server software module cannot run on a PPC Mac. I can see the logic for making ArchiCAD itself Intel Mac only, but there are so many powerful G5 Macs out there with multiple processors and lots of RAM that would be ideal BIM Server machines and cheap to pick up now that the most software is moving to Intel-only Macs - and it would have been a way for firms with a bunch of G5 Mac Pro's still in their inventory to make good use of them for another few years.

Cheers,
Karl
One of the forum moderators   •   AC 25 USA and earlier   •   MacOS 11.6.2, iMac Pro

Karl Ottenstein
Moderator
Just saw your second question. No, you cannot access the BIM Server, other than by logging into it via ArchiCAD (or the BIM Server Manager). It only dishes up ArchiCAD projects. It does not synchronize or offer any other services - a normal network server would be used for those things.

Karl
One of the forum moderators   •   AC 25 USA and earlier   •   MacOS 11.6.2, iMac Pro

Steve Jepson
Advisor
good info Karl. Thanks. I look forward to using it.
http://architosh.com/2009/09/in-depth-looking-at-archicad-13-with-bim-server/




The Delta Server is something I heard about 5 years ago or so.

Is this a different Delta Server or just a new application for it?

http://delta-server.software.informer.com/5.0/

Lots of things out there called Delta Server. Lots of other BIM Servers too.

Bentley is already using 5-D BIM Hard Dollar.
Revit also has a BIM server plug-in.

Do we need Solibri for TW2 or is something like that built in?

ArchiCAD 25 4013 USA - Windows 10 Pro 64x - Dell 7720 64 GB 2400MHz ECC - Xeon E3 1535M v6 4.20GHz - (2) 1TB M.2 PCIe Class 50 SSD's - 17.3" UHD IPS (3840x2160) - Nvidia Quadro P5000 16GB GDDR5 - Maxwell Studio/Render 5.2.1.49- Multilight 2 - Adobe Acrobat Pro

Stuart Smith
Contributor
Karl wrote:
Commenting as I can only on what is public in the videos/etc so far, I can say that my only disappointment is that the server software module cannot run on a PPC Mac. I can see the logic for making ArchiCAD itself Intel Mac only, but there are so many powerful G5 Macs out there with multiple processors and lots of RAM that would be ideal BIM Server machines and cheap to pick up now that the most software is moving to Intel-only Macs - and it would have been a way for firms with a bunch of G5 Mac Pro's still in their inventory to make good use of them for another few years.
If true, this really stinks. Our server is a G5 Mac Pro, and there's no reason to ditch it anytime soon. I guess we can run the BIM Server off one of our workstations, since we only have 2 or 3 people drafting.

How much of a performance hit does the server machine take?
AC user since 8.1
--
Current:
AC23 3003
Mac OS X 10.14.6

Steve Jepson
Advisor
Will Snow Leopard make it possible for you to use TW2 on the MAC ?

ArchiCAD 25 4013 USA - Windows 10 Pro 64x - Dell 7720 64 GB 2400MHz ECC - Xeon E3 1535M v6 4.20GHz - (2) 1TB M.2 PCIe Class 50 SSD's - 17.3" UHD IPS (3840x2160) - Nvidia Quadro P5000 16GB GDDR5 - Maxwell Studio/Render 5.2.1.49- Multilight 2 - Adobe Acrobat Pro

Erika Epstein
Contributor
Stuart wrote:
How much of a performance hit does the server machine take?
None at all. Both Karl and I just have it on our desktops. No separate servers.
Erika
Architect, Consultant
MacBook Pro Retina, 15-inch Yosemite 2.8 GHz Intel Core i7 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
Mac OSX 10.11.1
AC5-18
Onuma System

"Implementing Successful Building Information Modeling"

Karl Ottenstein
Moderator
Steve wrote:
Lots of things out there called Delta Server. Lots of other BIM Servers too.
...

Do we need Solibri for TW2 or is something like that built in?
The Greek letter Delta, as I'm sure you know, is the standard mathematical / physics symbol to represent differential change. That is why it is seen in so many places. (When it is time to change my oil, I write 'delta symbol' oil on my to-do list.)

What GS has done with the project database is what is a common concept in all databases - to transfer only the changes, ideally as light-weight as possible - including what part of the database is locked from other users during modification. With a typical database, this is relatively simple. With a complexly linked database such as an ArchiCAD project, I imagine this is quite complex, hence their patent application.

Yes, no relation to any other BIM Servers either. This is Graphisoft technology (using some off the shelf database components according to the article).

I have not been given an opportunity to use the Solibri model checker software, so cannot comment on it.

Cheers,
Karl
One of the forum moderators   •   AC 25 USA and earlier   •   MacOS 11.6.2, iMac Pro

Erika Epstein
Contributor
Steve wrote:
Will Snow Leopard make it possible for you to use TW2 on the MAC ?
You can run TW2 (AC13) on leopard and snow leopard but only on mactels. NO PPC macs.
Erika
Architect, Consultant
MacBook Pro Retina, 15-inch Yosemite 2.8 GHz Intel Core i7 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
Mac OSX 10.11.1
AC5-18
Onuma System

"Implementing Successful Building Information Modeling"

Karl Ottenstein
Moderator
Erika wrote:
Stuart wrote:
How much of a performance hit does the server machine take?
None at all. Both Karl and I just have it on our desktops. No separate servers.
Qualification: Erika and I are solo practitioners ... and tested together at times (so two of us on one of our servers). For your 2 to 3 person office, Stuart, there should not be a problem unless your MacTel machines feel underpowered for AC in the first place.

With my 8 core and 10 GB MacPro, I imagine I could work and host at least a dozen or more users without feeling any impact. I have not seen any tests for team size, but Graphisoft recommends a dedicated machine for very large teams, just because the network and disk I/O on that machine will start to make it unreasonable to try to do real work on it at the same time.

Cheers,
karl
One of the forum moderators   •   AC 25 USA and earlier   •   MacOS 11.6.2, iMac Pro

Anonymous
Not applicable
Karl wrote:
I have not seen any tests for team size, but Graphisoft recommends a dedicated machine for very large teams, just because the network and disk I/O on that machine will start to make it unreasonable to try to do real work on it at the same time.

Cheers,
karl
When the hourly salary of the team approaches the cost of the machine I would say it's time for a dedicated server.

Stuart Smith
Contributor
Thanks Karl and Erika, sounds like we should be fine.

One more question:

We like to study lots of options throughout the design process. One way we do this in AC12 is to save Teamwork draft files for each of the options, and then send changes back to the .plp when a direction is chosen.

Does TW2 allow this, or something similar?
AC user since 8.1
--
Current:
AC23 3003
Mac OS X 10.14.6

Steve Jepson
Advisor
I think this technology will change more that just how we collaborate.

How long before GS sets up a subscription service that includes accesss a super server? Sort of like how a render farm works.

For those of you familiar with how Maxwell connects to render farms, can you imagine working on a Rendering or Animation with this sort of Delta Server and a team of 20 or so working on different aspects, all able to see the live project evolve?

The implications for this technology on a building are mind blowing.

You have seen buildings constructed in one day. Now you will see Virtual Buildings constructed in one day using 100 or even 1000 modelers.

CAD modeling will specilize into sub trades just like constructing the building is done now.

You can hire a team to long in and model the framing, the drywall, the lighting, tile, cabinets, flooring, land scape, sprinklers, what ever...


Can you imagine what Vico's Constructor could do with TW2?

It is only a matter of time before companies that create Virtual Building models will be putting together huge teams of 1000 or more (all ArchiCAD users I hope) to work on a single project.

ArchiCAD 25 4013 USA - Windows 10 Pro 64x - Dell 7720 64 GB 2400MHz ECC - Xeon E3 1535M v6 4.20GHz - (2) 1TB M.2 PCIe Class 50 SSD's - 17.3" UHD IPS (3840x2160) - Nvidia Quadro P5000 16GB GDDR5 - Maxwell Studio/Render 5.2.1.49- Multilight 2 - Adobe Acrobat Pro

Steve Jepson
Advisor
Steve wrote:
I think this technology will change more that just how we collaborate.

How long before GS sets up a subscription service that includes accesss a super server? Sort of like how a render farm works.
Sooner than I thought.

What is Archigate ?

ArchiCAD 25 4013 USA - Windows 10 Pro 64x - Dell 7720 64 GB 2400MHz ECC - Xeon E3 1535M v6 4.20GHz - (2) 1TB M.2 PCIe Class 50 SSD's - 17.3" UHD IPS (3840x2160) - Nvidia Quadro P5000 16GB GDDR5 - Maxwell Studio/Render 5.2.1.49- Multilight 2 - Adobe Acrobat Pro

Anonymous
Not applicable
It looks like a FTP-esque secure file sharing application for ArchiCAD.

http://www.archigate.net

I would guess that TW2.0 in AC13 would make this fairly defunct if you only dealt with internal ArchiCAD layouts to organise your documentation. I expect Archigate would would still be useful to share other project documents like Word files, pdfs and dwgs etc which TW2.0 doesn't help you with (as far as I can tell).

Steve Jepson
Advisor
there is so much new technology and software I can't keep up.

5-D BIM Hard Dollar
Solibri
Snow Leopard
i7's

I miss the days when staying productive meant keeping your pencil sharp.

ArchiCAD 25 4013 USA - Windows 10 Pro 64x - Dell 7720 64 GB 2400MHz ECC - Xeon E3 1535M v6 4.20GHz - (2) 1TB M.2 PCIe Class 50 SSD's - 17.3" UHD IPS (3840x2160) - Nvidia Quadro P5000 16GB GDDR5 - Maxwell Studio/Render 5.2.1.49- Multilight 2 - Adobe Acrobat Pro

Peter wrote:
It looks like a FTP-esque secure file sharing application for ArchiCAD.

http://www.archigate.net

I would guess that TW2.0 in AC13 would make this fairly defunct if you only dealt with internal ArchiCAD layouts to organise your documentation. I expect Archigate would would still be useful to share other project documents like Word files, pdfs and dwgs etc which TW2.0 doesn't help you with (as far as I can tell).
Dropbox does almost all of this, and it's FREE for the 2 GB version. www.getdropbox.com, or if you use https://www.getdropbox.com/referrals/NTE1OTgxMDE5 we each get a little more storage space. It's a slick little program that is cross-platform. I've been using it with a number of clients now, and very happy with it.
Richard
--------------------------
Richard Morrison, Architect-Interior Designer
AC25 (since AC6.0), Win10

Steve Jepson
Advisor
ACROBAT.COM vs Archigate???

ArchiCAD 25 4013 USA - Windows 10 Pro 64x - Dell 7720 64 GB 2400MHz ECC - Xeon E3 1535M v6 4.20GHz - (2) 1TB M.2 PCIe Class 50 SSD's - 17.3" UHD IPS (3840x2160) - Nvidia Quadro P5000 16GB GDDR5 - Maxwell Studio/Render 5.2.1.49- Multilight 2 - Adobe Acrobat Pro

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