Attribute Management (Index No.) completely changed between 27 & 28? Management DISASTER!

[PeterPetersen]

I am experiencing an absolute disaster.

To manage attributes between files, up to version 27 we relied on index numbers. We managed our files so that index numbers and composites were identical in all files. Even when a mismatch occurred, we could simply reindex the attributes and everything was fine. All composites looked the same across multiple files – which is crucial in large projects with many hotlinks.

We have now migrated to version 28 – what a mistake – and whenever we reindex, the composites are displayed incorrectly in the files. In Attribute Manager, all index numbers and composite names are identical, yet in the model the layer composition is different. For example, a brick façade composite is correct in one file but is replaced by a different composite in another file.

Graphisoft – what did you change? Why were users not informed about such a fundamental change? This is causing total chaos on a multi-million project.

Has anyone experienced similar problems? Is there any fix? Can we manually switch back to the attribute logic from AC27? How are we supposed to ensure that the same composites are displayed correctly across multiple files?

[Lingwisyer]

So you have all the same attributes with the same index numbers and they are showing different things across different files?

When you say "Migrating", are you talking about projects themselves or that your office is starting to use AC28? There are quite a lot of intracacies when moving from AC27 and below to AC28 and beyond and there are quite a few threads around here about this.

Ling.

[Barry Kelly]

As far as attributes go, nothing has changed.

If you open the 27 file in 28 it should appear exactly as it did before.

It is possible that the attributes in the default Graphisof template have the same index numbers and names as those in your files.

But if you have modified your files by changing the attribute properties but not the name or index number, then that may be where you problem is stemming from.

When ever you modify a default Graphisoft attribute, you should duplicate it first so it gets a new index number and then modify the name as well so you know it is one of your attributes.

If you just start altering default Graphisoft attributes keeping the index and name, they will no longer match the default template. So if you try to copy and paste or hotlink to the default template, your attributes will change as you described.

As I said, if you just open the 27 file in 28, there should be no change.

Barry.

[Jan Millan]

If you are in a region that provides a localized template (FRA, GER, UK, USA, etc.); the issue may have to do with the template type you are using.

Earlier versions of Archicad typically exclusively relied on that localized template as what came installed in your Archicad. In Archicad 27 and above, Archicad includes a 'Generic' template + the localized version. If a project was started from the “Archicad 28 Generic Template.tpl” instead of the region-specific online template, the attribute set (including composites and their internal references) may not match what you expect, even if names and index numbers appear identical in Attribute Manager.

This article explains the different template types:
https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Project-data-BIM/Archicad-Template-Types/ta-p/631957

If your Archicad 27 files were created from a localized template and your Archicad 28 files from the generic template, that mismatch can lead to the kind of composite substitution you are seeing when reindexing or hotlinking.

[PeterPetersen]

Thanks for your reply Barry.

Clear something has changed. 

To make things clear. To manage our large interdisciplinary multimilion projects, where multiple offices and teams work together we have developed a strategy where all attributes are stored in a central catalogue file hotlinked to other files. The default Graphisoft attributes are Indexed from 1 to 999, our office internal attributes have slot from 1000 to 1999, another office uses 2000 to 2999, etc. 

The BIM Management Team ensures that across all files attributes with identical names have the same index numbers and exactly same settings - briefly speaking - that they are identical. Occassionally, when one of the architects on the team makes some mess, we get back into the files and clean up the data.

This worked perfectly until we moved one of our projects to AC28. We usually migrate late as it takes us time to adjust all our internal scripting and tools to new versions. Hence we only noticed the problem now. 

What happens when we follow this startegy in AC28 is - during clean up we ensure all attributes and indexes are identical. Yet this completely destroys our files. For example: a wall with say index 112 and name WA_HO_100_TR which is a timber stud wall 100mm thick, is called the same across files. Also has the same settings / parameters across all files. Yet in one file it is correct, in another the wall that used to be WA_HO_100_TR is now displayed as a wall with a different composite assigned. Just as if the individual parts kept the composite as per the old (wrong) index number. So essentially, we fixed te attributes but parts are still linked to old index numbers (which now are different composites). In AC27 and before the parts where linked to composite names not to indexes. At least this is the only way I can explain it. 

[PeterPetersen]

Hi Jan, thanks for your reply. Yes we are using a localised Swiss template (CHE). But the behaviour appears to have something to do with changes at the core of the software and how the indexes are linked to the building parts (see my response to Barry). I will investigate further and make some additional testing to see what is going on. 

[PeterPetersen]

Hi Ling, indeed. They are the same but are displayed differently - have a look at my reply to Barry (this explains the situation in detail).

[Barry Kelly]

Archicad doesn't care about the names and never has.

You can transfer/update attributes from file to file based on the names however, but internally Archicad just looks at the attribute numbers.

I make sure I always overwrite by index number and never by name when importing attributes.

You mention that the composites have the same index and name but look different.

Composites are made from building materials and building materials use fills.

So if those building materials and/or fills have the same index number and name but different fill types and colours in each file, that would explain why the composites look different when updating.

You would have to open two files side by side and compare the composite settings.

If they are identical as you say, then look at the attributes in particular that make up those composites.

Or you should be able to do it in the attribute manager of just one file.

Barry.

[karsten_bauschert]

We have not seen any changed behavior with attributes so far.
With our customized template we should have no issues with localization i hope.

In addition to Berrys explenation i want to point you at a nice Skewd video titled "the dark side of attribute chaos" by Scott:

https://youtu.be/BbfFE3jr6rk?t=369

At 10:00 it gives a nice graphic about the imoprt logic of Archicad.

[Davor P]

Have you checked what do xmls show under the hood? I would export from all files and open them raw and compare. Poking around XML has proven useful in the past for me.