Non-Autodesk solution for MEP calculations.

[Anonymous]

Hello there.

NOTE: Okay guys, 1154 views and no answer? Maybe it's because the post is too long, so I'm resuming in few words:

Can you recommend me a MEP software (or separate softwares for each discipline) besides Autodesk products that can perform basic calculations? I don't need fancy stuff though.

Thank you in advance.

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LONG VERSION:

Me and my brother we are starting our little business, we've been evaluating CAD and BIM programs for weeks and we already decided that ArchiCAD is the best software for us (or me ) in terms of production, cost-benefit and features as it stands at the moment.

Our plan is to work with small-to-medium projects, both residential and commercial, a friend is going to take part like a services provider, mostly for civil and structural projecting and analysis. I'm an electrical engineer on papers but I like to design functional buildings, my bro is a 'de facto' MEP engineer. (We're from the old "Turbocad vs AutoCAD" days though )

The problem though is, we would like to have a software that could perform basic calculations for ducts, pipes and cables, conduits and routing are also desired features but not that important. We absolutely refuse to do everything 'manually' nowadays. Plus I don't have much understanding on HVAC systems and I could use a little help to design those (of course my bro is going to review everything carefully according to his other pre-historic softwares and personal knowledge).

It seems Revit can do that, but I would like to stay away from Autodesk. There's also that 'Fine MEP' from 4M which seems quite powerful but I don't know if we can rely on it because the Fine ELEC (We have a trial) although seemingly correct there are lots of typos on the interface, it doesn't feel very 'professional' at all. I could be wrong though.

DDS-CAD is out of question, as well as ACAD plugins.

So, are there any other alternatives? If the MEP modeller had the calculations it would be just perfect for us. We don't want fully automated stuff (although auto-routing would be cool ), just some feedback and calculations, so we can have more data and clues if something's not quite right to change it immediately.

Thanks in advance.

PS: I've registered to download the trial of ArchiCAD and when I selected Hungary as my country the site redirected me to pages in hungarian and I don't speak hungarian and couldn't even finish the form correctly (I've entered anything) plus there's apparently no way to change it back to english when logged, I had to use google translate to figure things... Just because I'm hungarian you can't assume I speak that language! There should be at least a way to see the pages in english/other language I speak!

[Laszlo Nagy]

Here is the Graphisoft page where it talks about MEP solutions you may use with ArchiCAD:

http://www.graphisoft.com/archicad/open_bim/mep_workflows/

Regarding the download: you need to set the country you reside in, that is how the site determines which localized version to offer for download.
It is kind of funny because based on your name (Szabó - Taylor in English), which is one of the most common Hungarian family names, I would have assumed that you must speak Hungarian. Good lesson - never make assumptions, just see what is.

[Anonymous]

laszlonagy wrote:
Here is the Graphisoft page where it talks about MEP solutions you may use with ArchiCAD:

http://www.graphisoft.com/archicad/open_bim/mep_workflows/

Regarding the download: you need to set the country you reside in, that is how the site determines which localized version to offer for download.
It is kind of funny because based on your name (Szabó - Taylor in English), which is one of the most common Hungarian family names, I would have assumed that you must speak Hungarian. Good lesson - never make assumptions, just see what is.

Thank you for your reply.

That link wasn't very useful though because besides DDS-CAD the other MEP solutions are all Autodesk. Plancal isn't really a MEP program in my humble opinion.

We have a license of Elite's Electrical Tools and it's good, they also make HVAC and Plumbing softwares that performs calculations and have visual interface, I think it's an option, the problem is it's not going to be straight-forward like Revit MEP for example, the workflow is going to be much longer (Archicad > MEP (possibly 3 different softwares) > Archicad (retrace objects using MEP modeller (and repeat this every time for changes) ).

The ideal solution would a MEP program à la Revit but compatible with ArchiCAD. It seems Revit MEP doesn't have competition though .

I'm hungarian and I'm 1/6 of the year in Hungary but I live and have business in France and unfortunately I don't speak hungarian . Google also drives me crazy by displaying results in hungarian when I'm there. A lot of other sites also redirect me to the page of the country my IP is. Assuming that you speak the language of the country of your IP geolocation is the modern version of Kraken.

[Anonymous]

*Sigh*
It seems there's really no alternative... In this case it doesn't really worth to have both Revit AND Archicad, because the bundle that contains Revit is more expensive than Archicad but it also ships with AutoCAD, 3Ds Max and some other softwares, it's better to go Revit-only in my opinion instead of using Archicad in conjunction with Revit MEP. I think Revit is a decent (although it has some grotesque bugs) alternative to Archicad.

It's a pity though there's no good alternative, maybe DDS is an alternative but I couldn't even get a trial.

Thanks anyway guys.

[Anonymous]

Szabó wrote:
It's a pity though there's no good alternative, maybe DDS is an alternative but I couldn't even get a trial.

Yeah. I don't understand their apparent total lack of marketing effort. Maybe Trimble will buy them and Nemetschek and put together a stable of products that could really give Autodesk a run for their money.

BTW: if you are going to be doing much gravity pipe (drains) in Revit I highly recommend this vital accessory.

[Eduardo Rolon]

Matthew wrote:
…
BTW: if you are going to be doing much gravity pipe (drains) in Revit I highly recommend this vital accessory.

Made me click on the link! Still have nightmares…

[Anonymous]

Matthew wrote:
Yeah. I don't understand their apparent total lack of marketing effort. Maybe Trimble will buy them and Nemetschek and put together a stable of products that could really give Autodesk a run for their money.

BTW: if you are going to be doing much gravity pipe (drains) in Revit I highly recommend this vital accessory.

It seems DDS-CAD is way more expensive than Revit though. Are you saying Trimble would buy DDS *and* Nemetscheck?

Talking about Nemetscheck, they have a lot of good tools that could compete with Autodesk head-to-head except for a good MEP solution, however while Autodesk have a fully integrated and interoperable 'Suite' of softwares, Nemetscheks' ones are just a bunch of independent softwares that aren't guaranteed to work together and integrate in a smooth workflow. (~subsidiaries)

There's Allplan which is somewhat similar to Revit, they could simply produce an 'Allplan MEP', theres Scia Engineer which rivals Autodesk Robot, SolidWorks (although not a Nemetschek product) is an alternative to Inventor, and make them work together seamlessly.

Just look at the 'Building Design Suite Premium' from Autodesk (I believe their top seller bundle (suite) by date), there are alternatives (some better and cheaper) for every product besides AutoCAD&Revit MEP. But I think that the appealing factor, of course, besides being "industry-standard" tools, is the fact they are pretty much integrated tools, I mean, the 'Revit>Revit MEP>Revit Structure>Robot' workflow is just smooth and straightforward, plus there's also AutoCAD, 3Ds Max (which together with V-ray and a decent artist is unbeatable for visualization) and some less important fancy "sausage-fillers". The product is a kind of 'ultimate' software pack for AEC consulting companies. So, it doesn't matter if some products have competition and possibly much better counterparts, what matter is that the bundle is unrivaled.

This is a good strategy to destroy the competition, for example, you can't buy Revit stand-alone, you have to buy the entire bundle, so, why would anyone use 'ArchiCAD+Revit MEP' if you can simply use Revit Architecture instead and save the money? Or 'Revit+Cinema4D' for visualization instead of using 3Ds Max? Or Solidworks (in case of Ultimate) instead of Inventor? Or Scia instead of Robot? Of course no single person uses all of those softwares, but I'm pretty sure most people uses at least 2 of them, so, instead of buying the other from another company, you can simply save the money and use the alternative one that shipped with the bundle. It's valid for individuals/small companies (generally looking to save money) and for big companies because it's a bundle that is proven to work flawlessly (or kinda) and is industry-standard.

About the Speed Bag, yes, I know Autodesk products generally have bugs and nonsensical things, but that's part of the price one have to pay.

Just my two cents.

[Rakela Raul]

this is being done @ our office (attachment), and it seems that there are no issues using revit mep. just don't move any toilets

[Anonymous]

Rakela wrote:
this is being done @ our office (attachment), and it seems that there are no issues using revit mep. just don't move any toilets

Impressive work. Mazy stuff if you ask me.
Do you mean there are no problems using Revit MEP and Archicad in a workflow? Even if the integrations is seamless, if I'm buying Revit MEP, which ships in a bundle with Revit Architecture, I don't see much sense (atm) in buying Archicad, I'd just use Revit Architecture and spare the coins. It can't be that bad after all I think.
Thank you for the image.

[Rakela Raul]

no, that is 100% revit 13
(or 14) .. that I am sure of..