Point Clouds anyone ?

[Anonymous]

Does anyone have experience with importing / working with point cloud files ?

In Autocad . Revit 2012 there is now an integral point cloud import feature and I am able to import .PLY files by renaming the file extension to .XYZ which then allows the files to be indexed and .PCG files created and subsequently imported with some degree of success.

I'm not sure this is even possible within AC14, but I hope it will be in AC15 - anyone know ?

Any info much appreciated.

[Anonymous]

I wish you were wrong, but you are correct, there are no options for native point cloud import into Archicad at present. Nobody wants this capability more than I do.

1) As far as I know, Revit and Microstation are the only BIM apps that are capable of working with point cloud files directly. Yes Autocad too, but that's not BIM.

2) Yes you can make 2D images from point cloud data using software like PointCab, and import these images into Archicad, but this is a far cry from working with to-scale point clouds directly. I believe PointCab is PC only.

Petition Graphisoft!

[Anonymous]

Thank you.

This is so depressing.

[Katalin Takacs]

Here is a video about the ArchiSuite 16 Add-On that Fabrizio mentioned in April: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=4150720248825?

[Katalin Takacs]

Flexijet developed a mobile BIM laser measuring system for architects that can transfer the measured data directly to ArchiCAD via Bluetooth.
For more details visit: http://www.flexijet.info/en/produkte/flexijet-4architects/das-flexijet-4architects/

[Anonymous]

Graphisoft seems not to be seriously involved in professional uses of Archicad, and to prefer to cover extreme university students design needs. After 13 years of using Archicad we are now seriously thinking to switch to Autocad mainly because of the lack of point cloud add-on. Cigraph hasn't yet announced a professional point-cloud add-on and Flexijet seems to be childish for real world environment. We have been working with a kind of "cloud"of points (selected thought) 8 years now, taking advantage of the 3d space of Archicad and its ability to cut slices with sections. Unfortunately, we seem to be too lonely on that in the Archicad Community, whereas in Autocad there are so many people developing similar objects and having similar problems to resolve.
After all, archicad has not yet a reliable, 'all weather' XYZ insertion tool for simple topographic plans.
We have been used to be disapointed and excited at the same time from Archicad. But when we come to understand how much out of the market we get because of that selection of ours we need to make fast and decisive steps...
Anyone having similar needs from Archicad?
Here are some views of the use of points surveyed with the total station, as we work with them in archicad.

[Fabrizio Diodati]

From what I can see from your screen shot, our ArchiTools does just what you are lookign for... Maybe it hasn't been announced here but we already released it several months ago!
But I always considered this Forum as "support channel" and not an advertising corner!
Maybe you could send me your survey file and I could post here teh result.

This of course for what was regarding us... i cannot (and don't want!) address issue about ArchiCAD, Graphisoft or othere 3th Party developers!

Friendly
Fabrizio

[schagemann]

Fabrizio,

Thanks for posting I have found references to ArchiTools point cloud abilities elsewhere, however when I went to the english version of the cigraph website I was not able to find any information?

I for one would be very interested in what ArchiTools can do with the above files by Manolis, rather than the facebook example.

And on a side note maybe you can also explain a little more how the ArchiMap and Leica Disto integration works exactly... btw. what I find always best to explain such processes are short video clips demonstrating exactly how it works.

UPDATE > For example we noticed that Orthograph offers similar functionality although not directly into ArchiCAD, as it only works on the iPad, however it relies on a separate dongle to interpret (i.e. insert) the Leica output data.

Kind regards, Daniel.

[Fabrizio Diodati]

Hi Daniel,

I’m just posting here an example from a Norwegian ArchiTools user.
I cannot suggest you to use ArchiTools in this way… this is a point cloud including about 32 millions of points and the result can quickly slow down ArchiCAD but for the use I can suppose, looking at Manolis’s screen shot, I’m sure it can be a perfect solution.
Of course we provide filter functions which let you simplify the point cloud data but, till we won’t get a 3D point entity in ArchiCAD (I mean a real new entity developed for this purpose and not a library part!) everything depends on your HW/SW configuration and also, let me underline this, your skill level (that Norwegian user is a real expert!).
Anyway if your point cloud is like the ones we use in Italy (I mean, “normal” survey, manually performed using total station or other tools like these ones) which usually includes hundreds (maybe also some thousands) of points they can be quickly imported by using ArchiTools.
The result is an object that show the points in any ArchiCAD window (Plan, 3D, Section, Elevations).
The points includes hotspots (so you can snap on them), can display the imported data (coordinates values, code, comment) and there is a procedure that let you create a surface from these points (that of course won’t work with millions of points!) and, of course, these surface can be later converted in an ArchiCAD Morph element.
The best thing is to forward me some of your surveys (they should be in TXT file format because ArchiTools import only TXT file): I will try to import them by using ArchiTools and then I could post here the result for your evaluation.

About ArchiMap it’s on the market from several years and it comes from our HouseMap experience (one of the first application running also under Newton or on the first handheld devices).
I saw both Orthograph and Flexijet and they seems very good products.
ArchiMap doesn’t use point clouds but you can use it during the survey (of course it’s an ArchiCAD add-on so you should bring a laptop with you) or when you came back to the office.
The way in which it works, in respect of the other two products, is just a bit different: after you get the survey in ArchiCAD by using ArchiMap, you can use some automatic functions to transform your 2D survey in an ArchiCAD model (made by walls, windows and doors).
If you could provide me with your e-mail address I will be happy to send you a quick video (it’s about 16Mb) that shows its main functionality (you can drop me an e-mail to my e-mail address included in my signature).

Friendly
Fabrizio

[Anonymous]

The Cigraph plugin is interesting and I applaud their efforts, but it does not look like a serious solution. Thousands of points are not adequate for professional use. Our FARO point cloud files are often billions of points large and many gigabytes in size. Graphisoft/Cigraph will need a dedicated point cloud engine to deal with professional point cloud files. There is simply no other way around it.

Many Autodesk products (Revit, Autocad, Inventor, Navisworks etc) already enjoy robust point cloud support. And it is imminent that Autodesk will upgrade their point cloud capabilities in the coming year or so. Bentley outright purchased Pointools, arguably the best point cloud visualization company in the world, and Trimble's purchase of Sketchup, and recent alliance with FARO, has some very interesting possibilites (it seems quite possible that Sketchup will become a major BIM player in future releases).

Manolis is absolutely correct - Graphisoft is not taking professional applications for 3D scan data seriously. Much of the as-built world will be scanned in the next 10-20 years and it is inevitable that engineers and architects will be looking for tools that can visualize and model this data. Point clouds are no longer niche. They are becoming standard.

I am a long time Archicad user and it is my favourite software by far, but my office is shifting its focus to other software vendors as we become more reliant upon and excited about 3D laser scanning. Graphisoft needs to get serious and deal with this already, or risk falling into obscurity.

[Anonymous]

Hi all,
It is so nice to see that you are not the only one having those needs.
Apart from the need that Archicad addresses the point cloud issue, I believe that inserting easily and fast XYZ data from an ordinary survey is something basic for any CAD software. Although Cigraph had a long time now developed similar tools, I think this is not a job for an add-on, it should be a feature of the main software. Only recently, appeared on Archicad option for importing TXT data in a mesh, and I can say that in many cases it fails, and it doesn't also show the name of a point.
It is also funny that in Archicad 16 for first time appeared an object showing the XYZ coordinates of a point, whereas there existed such an object in archiradar for some years. Am I the only who thinks that such a feature should be from the very first things a usual professional architect needs?
Still it doesn't exist a tool for getting fast labeled the nodes of a polyline and their XY coordinates in a useful table. How else do you give to the contractor data to work with? Doesn't the building code in other countries deserve such tables for a building permit?
Curved shells and irregular inclined walls are very inspiring and nice to have them as options for the time you will need them, but coordinates are used as a communication tool in the building industry for decades and are indispensable for a CAD software.
Best Regards,
Manolis