what does or does not work with the 13 upgrade

[Anonymous]

VBe?
MEP modeler?
Google Earth connection?
Objective?


Cadimage requires upgrades...they are available now....for a price, but before I actually get 13. Anyow, Add-ons have been problematic with past upgrades. Anyone able to speak to this.

Thanks in advance, Cary

[Bricklyne Clarence]

oreopoulos wrote:

Karl wrote:
Cigraph announced today:
http://www.cigraph.it/cigraph/pagetrans.do?lang=en&action=notizie_det&view=NEWS_EVENTS&pof=0&news_id...

that the 13 plug-ins are ready for purchase and download. The article above says they are at no charge for people who purchased after June 15, but that the 13 upgrade is otherwise 25 euro for each plug-in.

Karl

I think this should stop , and its GS call. Why pay 25$ for each plugin for a recompilation? The system should be made such, that plugins do not become obsolete (like photoshop for example).

Is there anything else besides a recompilation involved?

.........one more reason why someone would choose not to upgrade.

I mean, why upgrade to a version (AC13) whose toolset upgrade does not consist of anything that would benefit you (as a small user for example, who may have no use for TW2 or may not work on projects large enough to justify the 64bit version - or alternatively a small user on Mac platform), and then as a bonus you have to pay the third party developers an extra fee so that their tools that you bought for version 12 (ostensibly, to plug up the holes that the ArchiCAD main host program doesn't deal with correctly or at all **cough*STAIRTOOL-DOOR/WINDOWBUILDER-LANDSCAPINGTOOLS*cough**cough**), can be merely recompiled (with no new features to speak of) to work with the new version of AC, that has no new significant features itself either?

It just seems like one big deluded convoluted and elaborate scheme to get money out of users from all angles for nothing better than to use a new version with the same old tools and and the same old deficiencies.

A new version, I might add, that will probably not even work correctly until after a few rounds of hotfixes, - by which point it will be time to upgrade to AC14 - where if you're lucky, you'll get one or 2 wishes (from the bottom of the Wishlist from 5 or 6 versions ago) partially fulfilled.

In what universe does any of the above make sense from a business/marketing or just basic customer-relations point of view?

And then when you raise these issues, you're accused of griping and grumbling - we're the bad guys. Cue the fanboys and apologists.

It's simultaneously hilarious and sad.

[Rakela Raul]

.one more reason why someone would choose not to upgrade.

how much money do you save if you dont upgrade today, but you wish to upgrade in version 15 ??

If you do the numbers, it might be cheaper to upgrade now (you dont have to use the software), continue using the version that you already know well and it is almost cleaned of bugs and you dont have to waste any time training people at the office nor learning new things you wont use anyway...and on top of that you wont pay for the cigraphs, etc.

I think, you might be saving alot of money upgrading now....I havent done the numbers recently but im pretty sure....and I concur with you on this but there is nothing I can do about it, I am just going with the flow in the most economical way.

[owen]

oreopoulos wrote:

Karl wrote:
Cigraph announced today:
http://www.cigraph.it/cigraph/pagetrans.do?lang=en&action=notizie_det&view=NEWS_EVENTS&pof=0&news_id...

that the 13 plug-ins are ready for purchase and download. The article above says they are at no charge for people who purchased after June 15, but that the 13 upgrade is otherwise 25 euro for each plug-in.

Karl

I think this should stop , and its GS call. Why pay 25$ for each plugin for a recompilation? The system should be made such, that plugins do not become obsolete (like photoshop for example).

Is there anything else besides a recompilation involved?

I agree. Adobe apps are a perfect example .. plugins should not be rendered obsolete by a program update (within reason, i am not talking 4+ verisons ago). Now if new plugins add new features, then i think the developers should charge for a new version, however you should not be forced to buy new plugins just to keep using them in new AC versions.

oreopoulos raises a very valid point IMO .... what is required to make a 12 plugin work in 13 other than recompliation? If there is more involved, i assume this means the API has changed between versions (so much for backward compatibility). If it is just recompliation, why is this even required? Why is it not possible for ArchiCAD to recognize old plugins and just use them?*

Sounds like a mechanism to force plugin/add-on upgrades to me - which is fine if they are released at the same time as AC and are free, but is not at all cool if you are being charged for them.

*I remember a few versions back there was a hack to get an old plugin working in a newer AC version as Graphisoft had not released the official version (think it was the .AC4D Export plugin). I think this shows that at least for plugins there is no technical reason most of them wouldn't run

[Fabrizio Diodati]

Just a consideration from me.
I don't want to go too much deep in the technical details but a "simple" recompilation for sure couldn't be enough over all with some new issues introduced by ArchiCAD 13 (i.e. new library handling and TeamWork 2).

Unfortunately we have to change also the code anytime a new major update is released both because the changes coming from the new version and for keeping the backward compatibility with the previous versions (remember that all of our plug-ins can be used from AC 8.1 till Ac 13).

Of course if GS could avoid to force us to recompile our plug-ins we will be the first ones to be happy.
Last but not least, remember we had to test also our software under Windows 64 bit...

I'm sorry,

friendly
Fabrizio

[Anonymous]

A parasite is an organism that lives in or on the living tissue of a host organism at the expense of it. The biological interaction between the host and the parasite is called parasitism. Parasitism is a type of symbiosis, by one definition, although another definition of symbiosis excludes parasitism, since it requires that the host benefit from the interaction as well as the parasite . . . . . .

If u dont put new functions in your addons.... where is our benefit...u r sucking our blood

[Fabrizio Diodati]

Dear Necko,

this will be my last post on this issue...
"since it requires that the host benefit from the interaction"

from my point of view the benefict should be the fact you are now able to use our add-ons under ArchiCAD 13.

As I already wrote, we will be the first to be happy if we could avoid to waste our time, any year, in building these compatibility updates.
Over all because, I want to undrline this once more, it is not a simple recompilation but it need new developments in order to make working again things already worked fine.

Friendly
Fabrizio

[Ralph Wessel]

Fabrizio wrote:
Over all because, I want to undrline this once more, it is not a simple recompilation but it need new developments in order to make working again things already worked fine.

I'd like to back up what Fabrizio is saying. Even if it was a simple case of recompiling, you couldn't simply turn around and release it. Every object and function has to be tested in the new environment, particularly when features like TW2 are added. This can be very time-consuming, depending on the nature of the add-on.

But, unfortunately, developing with the ArchiCAD API requires more than a simple recompile (usually). There are changes to data structures, function calls, and sometimes entire methodologies. The impact on the developer depends on how deeply the changes affected a specific add-on (no add-on will use the entire API).

Someone has to be paid to do this work, and it comes down to whether the developer can absorb the cost or not. It isn't parasitic to pass that cost on to the customer - as Fabrizio said, it enables you to continue to work with the add-on in the new environment.

[Anonymous]

hmmm, dint mean to offend you, especily you 2..Ralph and Fabrizio...
you are doing great job and i think that your addons should be part of archicad...if there wasnt you people, AC will not worth for me.

You are first people that listen our wishes...you created, modeling tools for ac...But plz, alwys put something new cos there is a lot of things that can be updated in your addons. You clearly see what final user want form AC...

Plz read wish section...if u can make any wish come true then u will prove that u r better then GS team... All things that GS do make sanse to them, but not to many of us.

i ask myself, why should i go to Ac 13, there is nothing new that will help me to model building better, easyer, etc (just cosmetic stuff) and why should user pay for addon update if there is nothing new...i dont see logic there. If there is logic then plz explain it to me.

Everybody says, ArchiCAD 13 Revolutionizes BIM Collaboration but i still cant draw simple stuff in archicad. So i can draw with 100 other architect on the same project and we willl be stucked like in AC12 with the same problems and thats why AC13 sux !

[Fabrizio Diodati]

Ok Necko,
I got your point.
On the other hand, reading you were considering us as parasite convinced me I had to reply.

“You are first people that listen our wishes...you created, modeling tools for ac...But plz, alwys put something new cos there is a lot of things that can be updated in your addons. You clearly see what final user want form AC...”

Very kind of you!
If you think there are a lot of things which can be updated in my add-ons, please, don’t hesitate, send me your wish list and I will try to do my best to include them in order to improve our tools.
On the other hand, the life of a 3th Party Developer is not so easy as you could imagine...

Maybe you are going to finalize a new add-on in order to release it soon in the market so it will help you in this crisis period and… you have to stop anything just because you have to start to create the compatibility updates of your products for the new major release of ArchiCAD.
Or, as it happened with ArchiCAD 12, you are going to release a new add-on (ArchiCurtainWall) and Graphisoft releases a new major update that includes the same function… and you wasted months of research and development!

As Ralph wrote: “with a new release of ArchiCAD there are changes to data structures, function calls, and sometimes entire methodologies. The impact on the developer depends on how deeply the changes affected a specific add-on.”

I just want to share with you the fact that:

ArchiForma
ArchiTerra
ArchiStair
ArchiQuant
ArchiTiles

That means 5 of our 15 add-ons (and the most sold) have been deeply affected by the changes coming with ArchiCAD 13.
Using AC 13 you will realize you cannot load, as before, a single library part and you cannot save a library part where you want.
This comes from the fact that AC 13 library handling is quite different from before (both due to the fact GS wanted to avoid the trouble of missing objects and from the new TW2).
And this meant these 5 add-ons didn’t work anymore under AC 13 and we have to find out a solution to provide you with a new working release.
This meant to focus all our resources on a quick development of new procedures (that BTW, should work also with the previous versions) and meant a stop of all our work in progress development.
BTW, I’m not complaining at all for this: GS is free to develop whatever consider good to produce a new valuable major update and developing is my job: nobody forced me to do it it has been my choice!
But, after this, reading we were considered ad parasite…

Ok, it has been just a misunderstanding so let’s come back to our job…

Thank you again
Friendly
Fabrizio

[Anonymous]

Or, as it happened with ArchiCAD 12, you are going to release a new add-on (ArchiCurtainWall) and Graphisoft releases a new major update that includes the same function… and you wasted months of research and development!

Autsh! This one must have hurt.
And after that keep up the quality work that you provide us?!...
Fabrizio... You are a hero!