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Archicad 25

Narska
Booster
Where can I find a list of what new goodies we can expect in the next version of archicad?
Tomasz Mlynarski
New York based Architect
184 REPLIES 184

Alammouri
Newcomer
It is better if they called it AC 24s
Of anew update of AC 24
It seems they make all these features between May and July. So the release come late two mothes
In other hand this weak version maybe gives the developer the time to make new tools from scratch along last year to next year.
So it's always better to show the users the road map.
I hope next year is better;

insideru
Enthusiast
Allow me to TRY to solve the mystery. Bear with me, it's a long one, but i hope it makes sense.

Something happened in version 24. Hotfixes started to be called Updates, they had new features added to the software, and they even have articles on the site.Take a look here:
https://graphisoft.com/downloads/archicad/updates/archicad-24-update
Now, the first sentence of that post is this one:
By releasing new capabilities and enhancements with every Archicad update, our users benefit from continuous improvements throughout the year.
I think they are shifting the way they make new releases, here is how i think they will do it and why i think it's a good thing.

Every Archicad version, for the past decade, launched with a certain degree of major bugs. Any of you started working with the new version right away? I have never done so. Even resellers don't recommand it. "Finish the project in the version you started working on it", they say. That's because, most of the time, bugs and crashes would be so critical, at the start of the new version cycle, it just wasn't practical to use it in production setup.

What ended up happening: they crammed all the features they could in the 8-10 months they had for development, then tested as much as they could until launch. The rest of the development would be carried out during the next couple months, and applied to the product through hotfixes.

This has two major problems (probably more, depending on which way you look at it, i am just analysing from a commercial/marketing pov): One, You have a faulty program at launch, that frustrates users and helps with a bad company/product rep ... and two, users choose to run an older version of the software, until the new one gets fixed/finished.

How could you fix this? No need to think, Apple has the answer here, and we know Graphisoft loves Apple. A few years back, they used to do the same: cram all the features into new versions of ios and launching them buggy as hell (releasing hotfixes throughout the year), that people just used older versions to be sure they could use their phones (not updating). So they started to develop features modularly, separately, so they could be tested individually and released when they are ready. They then started launching new ios versions with some features "added later in the year".

If you are interested, you can read about it here:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-11-21/apple-ios-14-features-changes-testing-after-ios-1...
So, here is what i believe is going to happen. They will focus on stability and functionality from day one. Its absolutely imperative to have that if you want to have a product people that sells. This will solve problem one: the program will be usable from day one, with minor, non-production breaking bugs. This in turn, solves problem two: People will stop using the older version, and upgrade, especially since most of us have SSA anyway.

What will happen afterwards is they'll be adding those new features that didn't quite passed QA for launch, throughout the year, as they are ready.

I, for one, would be extremely happy if they do this ... and i think you all should be. Getting a new version with fewer features, but with much fewer bugs during the first months, and getting the rest of the features later is a much better plan than just not using the new version because of X bug, thus losing access to some new features that aren't bugged (i won't mention new versions that reactivated old bugs, but that seems to be a thing lately).
ARCHICAD 24 INT
macOS Big Sur

outpostarc
Newcomer
I know that there are a lot of complaints already about this version. I usually try to find the handful of enhancements that allows me to save time and design better. The couple that I say that will save me a lot of time are the ability to pick things in 3D and highlight them in 2d and the other way around. Also the ability to hide things in three dimensions without turning off the layer is a big advantage for me. Any and all enhancements to interoperability are always welcome. And finally the elevation enhancements are welcome. Not always is the gaming engine the only way to present your design for me it’s a combination of things.
Mark Gillis | Architect
CJMW Architecture

ArchiCad 24 | Mac/Windows - user since 1991

Podolsky
Newcomer
Okey, there are few thoughts before I go sleep.
Survey point. What the point to have several style points (these buttons) if survey point is 'virtual' - not shown on printed drawing? Of course it came from previous GDL object, but now styles of graphical representation are not needed at all. It's just not clever.
And another one - update of licence and sign in to Graphisoft ID on ArchiCAD start. Looks like Graphisoft experience high level of software piracy, and this update - new try to cut the piracy. Piracy - it's very interesting (and often forbidden) theme to discuss. For me as a person who came from post Soviet area piracy was essential. We, being youngsters, in time of Windows 95, were even not able to understand that software can cost more then computer. We were buying CD with all possible architectural software on the market for 5 dollars max and thought - this is how it suppose to be. And one day I faced the problem. ArchiCAD from this CD did not work. Then I found out - exists the thing called hardware protection key. After I managed, after several tries, to find and buy working ArchiCAD 5, came version 6. And after you see version 6 - you cannot work with version 5 anymore. But version 6 was never 'cracked'. Until, after 3 months of searching in Internet, I found one guy from Moscow, who sold me hardware key emulator for 300 bucks. And it worked perfectly! After came ArchiCAD 7. Graphisoft changed they keys to some German technology. My friend hacker after reviewing the new key told me, that with new key it is possible to execute part of exe file in the key - so it's possible to make the software totally uncrakable, but Graphisoft is not using this possibility! So they like did care about protecting their software, but not really.

Of course, piracy - it's stealing from Graphisoft.
But, here is interesting point. Graphisoft positioning ArchiCAD as some sort of vintage beloved architectural software for small boutique architectural companies. And it's very good for creative individuals. But are they rich? Not really. Many architects from small practises are poor. They survive somehow. Are they able to pay? Not all of them. Then who is able to pay? Big companies. But big architectural companies (on corporative level) mostly involved into construction technologies much more, then single creative architects. Does ArchiCAD able to deliver complete solution for big corporations? No, not really. We still cannot set in the project structural slab level, finished floor level and finished ceiling level. So then what? Most likely big companies will buy another software then. Or, if they are buying ArchiCAD - they suffer and their business suffers. I know one example of UK company with 200 employees. Since they got ArchiCAD after switching from 2D CAD - they are really really suffering. Directors are saying all the time - we must get Revit instead. And probably they will one day.
So the situation reminds me a snake, that biting its own tail.

rm
Enthusiast
Podolsky wrote:
For me as a person who came from post Soviet area piracy was essential.
It seems you are suggesting stealing ArchiCAD or any other software is ok as long as you have a "good" reason to steal it.

I'm sure we all have opinions of what ArchiCAD is really worth to us as Architects especially after today's announcement of AC 25. Much of commentary here is focused on the value of these yearly updates from GS and if they actually bring a fair value to cost proposition.

But stealing intellectual property is NEVER ok! It hurts everyone. It first hurts the developers who put hundreds of thousands of hours into creating the software. It hurts those that pay for the software and it hurts the economy.

BTW, if you are an Architect and someone steals your design and or your construction documents, because they do not see the value in your work, is it fair to you if they duplicate it and charge for it?!

Even if most people knew how to pirate software, would they? I know I wouldn't and I am sure many other practitioners with integrity would not either. I'm actually surprised you would even admit that you have pirated ArchiCAD for a long time. I hope GS will take the appropriate steps to this illegal activity.
Robert Mariani
MARIANI design studio, PLLC
Architecture / Architectural Photography
www.robertmariani.com

Mac OSX 11.6
AC 24 / 25

jl_lt
Contributor
insideru wrote:

I, for one, would be extremely happy if they do this ... and i think you all should be. Getting a new version with fewer features, but with much fewer bugs during the first months, and getting the rest of the features later is a much better plan than just not using the new version because of X bug, thus losing access to some new features that aren't bugged (i won't mention new versions that reactivated old bugs, but that seems to be a thing lately).
I wouldnt mind it either. id actually like it very much, to have incremental updates without relation to a yearly cycle which i agree is not sustainable.

Barry Kelly
Moderator
I just watched the Australian 25 launch webinar.
During Beta testing I too was a little disappointed with the new content in 25 this year.
But after watching the webinar and knowing what hopefully will come in the near future, I think I am starting to like this release.
Still no big ticket item for me, but I guess we can't expect new/revamped tools every release.

Textures in 3D are great.
Selecting and finding elements in 2D/3D (quick shift) & hiding elements in 3D is great.
Polygonal openings are great.
New library parts are OK.
Plus a few other small things.

I don't think I will ever use SAM.

But it is the zones in section (with ability to label them) and the new scheduling features that will be coming in a future update (not too long I hope) that I am looking forward to the most.

Barry.

One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Dell Precision 3510 - i7 6820HQ @ 2.70GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD FirePro W5130M, Windows 10

jl_lt
Contributor
rm wrote:
Podolsky wrote:
For me as a person who came from post Soviet area piracy was essential.
It seems you are suggesting stealing ArchiCAD or any other software is ok as long as you have a "good" reason to steal it.

I'm sure we all have opinions of what ArchiCAD is really worth to us as Architects especially after today's announcement of AC 25. Much of commentary here is focused on the value of these yearly updates from GS and if they actually bring a fair value to cost proposition.

But stealing intellectual property is NEVER ok! It hurts everyone. It first hurts the developers who put hundreds of thousands of hours into creating the software. It hurts those that pay for the software and it hurts the economy.

BTW, if you are an Architect and someone steals your design and or your construction documents, because they do not see the value in your work, is it fair to you if they duplicate it and charge for it?!

Even if most people knew how to pirate software, would they? I know I wouldn't and I am sure many other practitioners with integrity would not either. I'm actually surprised you would even admit that you have pirated ArchiCAD for a long time. I hope GS will take the appropriate steps to this illegal activity.
I think we all agree with you. But also, and im not justifying anything, the moment they get too harsh on this they lose the markets in Latin America, Africa, most of Asia and probably even eastern Europe. Unfortunately, this is the way for many users to experience any software; eventually, a nice percentage of them will succeed and a nice percentage of that will end up buying the software, the rest would not have bought it anyway.

What they need to do is offer even more flexible paying options, like some multiyear credit with lower monthly fees (with a net increase in the price at the end of course, otherwise wouldnt be fair for the guys that pay upfront). As i said elsewhere, is not that users in these countries dont want to pay, its just that, in many cases, they can´t.

spacemaking97
Newcomer
Horribly disappointing....They've downgraded!! Every workers of Graphisoft must have been in a hospital because of COVID-19

MartinRosa
Contributor
As a SSA user, I am quite satisfied with the new version’s features and I can’t wait to use them once the 25 will be released in the “rest of the world” language mutations. I don’t mind the strategy of releasing more minor releases over the year instead of one that changes geverything; one can at least keep pace with the development. I have just two wishes: GS, please, the polygonal opennings are great, but the tool will never be fully usable without the possibility to make openings in the roofs as well. And could you possibily shorten the period between releasing the INT and local versions (must it really always take months to translate everything related to the new minor features)?
www.martinrosa.cz
GRAPHISOFT Certified Archicad BIM Manager, 2021
AC 24 CZ @ macOS 11.0

riyadist
Newcomer
I think the company shrinks and can not make any profit. There are lots of wishes and they skip all ideas.

Nothing exciting in 25 version.

Let down again!

Jp1138
Expert
jl_lt wrote:
insideru wrote:

I, for one, would be extremely happy if they do this ... and i think you all should be. Getting a new version with fewer features, but with much fewer bugs during the first months, and getting the rest of the features later is a much better plan than just not using the new version because of X bug, thus losing access to some new features that aren't bugged (i won't mention new versions that reactivated old bugs, but that seems to be a thing lately).
I wouldnt mind it either. id actually like it very much, to have incremental updates without relation to a yearly cycle which i agree is not sustainable.
I would be very nice, but I also think then it would be more reasonable to have some sort of roadmap of what to wait for. It wouldn´t have to be attached to major versions, just what´s in the works and what can be expected in the short, medium or long term.
ARCHICAD 24 SPA
Windows 10

Podolsky
Newcomer
It seems you are suggesting stealing ArchiCAD or any other software is ok as long as you have a "good" reason to steal it.
You completely missing the point. Architects stealing all the time ideas of each other. Property developers are stealing projects from architects. Builders stealing tools and building materials from site. The all construction industry is stealing money from people by overpricing property value and selling to you an apartment for the price 10 times higher then it worth.
And if there is a chance to get something for free - most people consider to take it.

Software piracy is unique phenomena and through all history of computers were discussions - shall software be for free. There is unique movement between programmers, called open source and GNU licence. Today under this licence developed quite a lot of software: UNIX, Linux, Android, Blender, GIMP, Google applications, Open Office, Apache... the list is actually big and it's getting bigger. Some of them just free some of them open source...
The idea of open source and GNU that software is part of hardware and you don't need to pay for it. Any hardware has software - and people never even thought to buy it. Like you never paying for software in calculator or TV - when they actually also have some OS there. Apple mostly following this logic - as nobody is paying for MacOS or iOS.
Piracy mostly following this idea. They actually consider themselves Robin Goods. Helping poor people to be more educated in computers. So you can say anything you want, but piracy always will exist.

The question I'm rising is that there is evidence showing that Graphisoft never tried hard to protect their software from piracy. They always had a chance to protect ArchiCAD that it would be "uncrackable", but this chance (apart of version 6) was dismissed. By another hand - done a little to provide solid solution to big architectural and construction companies (on corporative level). Any big company (50 and more employees) will suffer using ArchiCAD in their business. Or they need also to have their own GDL programmers and Add-ons developers, who will re-introduce some of ArchiCAD functionality, how it happens in Japan (is it Cadjima corporation?)

So Graphisoft is not targeting segment of the market, that could bring them more money.
What top managers of Graphisoft are thinking - I don't understand. But seems they are not very good strategists in business - especially looking how quickly Revit took the market worldwide. Last promise we all hear in version 24 to make ArchiCAD software number one on BIM market currently did not happen. Reminds more promise of Donald Trump make America great again.

DGSketcher
Mentor
I think a constant drip feeding of updates containing bug fixes, workflow improvements & minor features would be a good strategy. The Big push to upgrade could then be driven by must have new features like internal modules. I share the disappointment of this release, but from the Beta bugs I have a feeling there is some deep restructuring of the code in progress which, hopefully, will bring positive changes in the near future.
Apple iMac macOS Big Sur / AC24UKI (most recent builds)

DGSketcher
Mentor
Podolsky wrote:
But seems they are not very good strategists in business - especially looking how quickly Revit took the market worldwide.
I don't think GS dropped the ball when Revit turned up, it is the classic problem that AutoDe$k are so well established in the CAD market, their previous customers blindly followed into their 3D solution believing it to be the safest and "best" route for collaboration. So basically nothing GS could do would stop Revit gaining traction.
Apple iMac macOS Big Sur / AC24UKI (most recent builds)

Podolsky
Newcomer
When I was young and stupid, I though that AutoCAD is totally sh....y program. But now I don't think so. AutoDesk are serious guys. By the way - who developed IFC? AutoDesk.
They're providing with serious solutions - always working on it. Revit took the market because nobody else could be bothered to make some efforts.
Sometimes I think, how my life would establish, if I followed Revit instead of ArchiCAD. People everywhere need Revit specialists and offer really big money. I probably would be rich now. Write some Python scripts on Dynamo...

Instead of that I'm looking to this chaos of fills and RGB in ArchiCAD 25. I'm looking and thinking - are you kidding me?

DGSketcher wrote:
I think a constant drip feeding of updates containing bug fixes, workflow improvements & minor features would be a good strategy. The Big push to upgrade could then be driven by must have new features like internal modules. I share the disappointment of this release, but from the Beta bugs I have a feeling there is some deep restructuring of the code in progress which, hopefully, will bring positive changes in the near future.


This is what people say.......EVERY ....year.......particularly beta testers, and the usual coterie of apologists and eternal evangelists from the gospel of GS.

Every.
Year!

And yet seemingly every year, over the last couple of versions in particular, the new feature upgrades list per version, of REAL actual functionality improvements (useful to people actually IN architecture and design and small users) seems to be an ever diminishing return and an ever shrinking feature in and of itself.

Just to recap over the last several versions,....since version 22 that had the most significant feature upgrade in the Curtain wall tool getting major revisions and improvements in almost 10 years since it was first introduced, we've had...

Version 23 - main feature uprgade was that wall hole tool - which, while good, most users had long since already figured out (admittedly clunky) workarounds around that issue.

Version 24 - main feature upgrade was a tool benefitting a whole entire other profession that are not even primarily Archicad users or architects who work using that workflow (which I'm willing to bet is the vast majority of users.

And now you have version 25 who's major improvements are upgrades of sorts to the above two features from the previous versions (that either weren't that heavily requested nor are that majorly used) along with a couple of other "tool improvements" which, while not in themselves bad, still make people scratch their heads and wonder, ...."Is this really what development resources and time and energy is being spent on?"
Particularly when there's a whole slew of other legacy issues that continue to go unaddressed while in other areas the program seems to get left way waaay behind by technological improvements on the hardware side that their rivals have already gotten on the bus with (looking at multi-monitor usage and full utilization of modern powerful GPU's.....on BOTH platforms in particular.......as an example)

In fact, I'd even argue that the last version with a really significant tool upgrade - that wasn't just a 'refresh' of an already existing tool, but rather a major revision and particular of one majorly requested over a long time - was version 21 with the major Stair tool and Rail tool upgrades (And even those still have outstanding issues to address beyond what was touched on in this version. Where the hell is a dedicated Ramp tool or ramp feature or function of the same tool for crying out loud? And please don't point me to the limited ramp object in the library.)

And it's been coming for the longest time.
Version 20 was largely a (literal) cosmetic upgrade with the interface getting "upgraded"
Version 19 was a largely 'under-the-hood' improvements version...
v18 was the Cinerender integration which was really work by other people other than GS, but whatever, and then you have to get all the way back to v16 and v17 with the Morph tool for the other major tool upgrade before that.

....but still,....

We're all just supposed to just have faith ....or something, that something major is in the works for the long term, that's going on behind the scenes or under the hood that they're laying the groundwork for,.....that most of use not in the know or deep in the weeds are simply not aware of.

Just have trust in the plan, have faith .....like it's some religion at this point (.....or a cult or a pyramid scheme).

Is it therefore any wonder that more and more people now want an open roadmap for development plans going forward to be published to know exactly what's what and to lay out and see if there really is the makings of any of this "grand plan"?

'I share the disappointment of this release',... is going to become the new mantra of new version announcements and releases going forward, methinks.

.....papered over and sugar-sprinkled with,..'...but have faith. Great stuff is coming up'


Geeez.

Erwin Edel
Mentor
It just feels like GS has been plugging holes with more holes for a while now.

Reminds me of times in the past we had in our office where we had to submit half finished sets of documentation for permits to meet deadlines and fix them when the remarks about flaws came back. Your overall planning is fundamentally flawed at that point (you can't meet deadlines, you are understaffed or in our case the workflow is inefficient). It takes a pretty long time to catch up and in the meantime you are putting in more effort to fix problems that shouldn't have been there.

In NL we are ussually a few months behind on the release, due to localisation, but I generally see all the bugs and crashes on every release being discussed here. I generally don't touch a new version until the first 1 or 2 patches (or 'updates') have been out and then often on a 'fresh' project.

I still haven't used AC24 yet. It takes time and effort to update work environments and templates for new version and I saw very little reason. AC25 doesn't seem to offer much new, so that might a point to 'jump in' again (not a lot of work beyond that needed for AC23>AC24).

I did find AC23 offered a lot of speed upgrades. There seems to be a lot 'boring' work going on there and it tends to get taken for granted. There have been a few other versions that offered performance increases in this regard.

I do not like 'incremental' changes to existing versions though. Some of these updates will break existing workflow and that's the last thing I want over the course of a project. It used to be 'stick with the version it was drafted in' and that meant smooth sailing. If half way through our project in AC2x the stair tool gets and overhaul, we can't really go back unless we decide to not update AC2x to the latest version (which will also come with bug fixes).
Erwin Edel, Project Lead, Leloup Architecten
www.leloup.nl

ArchiCAD 9-24 NED FULL
Windows 10 Pro
Adobe Design Premium CS5

DGSketcher
Mentor
@Bricklyne, I hear you, we are on the same page and I agree with everything you say. I am as frustrated as a lot of people. Users need to let their feelings known if GS are to take notice. I am no apologist for GS, personally I don't know why stuff takes so long to fix or develop, why do new features create so many unrelated bugs, is the program code out of control, are the developers under resourced, is Vectorworks the new golden child and AC is the testing ground, are share holders taking too much of the pie? I wish I knew the answers.
Apple iMac macOS Big Sur / AC24UKI (most recent builds)

Jp1138
Expert
Erwin wrote:
...

I do not like 'incremental' changes to existing versions though. Some of these updates will break existing workflow and that's the last thing I want over the course of a project. It used to be 'stick with the version it was drafted in' and that meant smooth sailing. If half way through our project in AC2x the stair tool gets and overhaul, we can't really go back unless we decide to not update AC2x to the latest version (which will also come with bug fixes).
That´s a very good point I hadn´t really considered. The updates should be modular and only in version changes become part of the program, just as RFA import or Param-o, which were optionals addins first. That way they would´nt disrupt current projects if you didn´t need the new functions. Version changes would mean something, but development would be more continuos. Maybe this is the way they are going?

I suppose this would make development more difficult for Graphisoft, though, specially when changes affect to core tools like stairs, walls, etc.
ARCHICAD 24 SPA
Windows 10

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