Simple element pen defaults needed to cut down excessive pen noise in Archicad

[mthd]

I am hoping that someone is listening carefully out there in Archicad land ?

I find that I waste heaps of time trying to set the correct pen weights and colors for 2D display of elements. Is anyone else having similar problems with Archicad ?

Do I need to learn more about graphic overrides and how to use them, will this help with the 2D construction drawings ?

Is there a simple way of cutting down on the amount of defaults pens to a minimal level to save time setting them all ? I am not talking about having a preset template as they are still way too complicated 

IMO.

If we could start with a simple level of set pen defaults for each element and then increase them if we choose to do so for more 2D display control.

For crying out loud, when I was drawing with drafting pens, I only needed a 0.13, 0.25, 0.35, 0.50, 0.70 all in black. With only 5 pens I could do all my 2D work.

CAD has become way too complicated in some applications, all to the benefit of having greater control. 

[DGSketcher]

There's been a few discussions about this on here, it might be worth a search to review how others are adapting.

Like you I grew up with drafting pens after my quill broke, and I agree the whole Pen Set arrangement feels like a total time suck. Some users have got a handle on it; personally I never understood why it was so complex from multiple pen set management to tracking down their selection buried in an element's settings.

I have for years managed everything with one pen set and GO's to set basic presentation e.g. change all elements to black / grey and then highlight the elements that matter on the drawing and using colour if necessary through the element filters e.g. change all windows to 0.35mm Blue lines. It isn't complex to set up with GO's and apart from my audit checks I have about 8 GO's for all my drawings. Using this method you can basically ignore all the detailed and different pens in elements and objects.

[mthd]

Thank you very much for your reply DGS it’s very much appreciated.

Looks like GO’s is the go for now at least ?

Who else had a set of Rotring Rapidograph drafting pens from the mid 1980’s ? It’s great that Archicad has that system of pen weights for us older users to gauge what our drawings will look like after being printed.

I still think with careful planning they can cut down the endless scrolling through dialogue boxes to find and set pen colors and weights for basic elements. They could improve it in a future version of Archicad who knows ?

I like how you can change the level of detail of openings with MVO’s.

I think I need to study up on GO’s and how to use them for now.

I thought it was a joy when I graduated from a “Tee” & “Set Square” to a mechanical drafting machine while studying in the mid 80’s, that saved me allot of time on homework lol.

If only Archicad was a little less complicated !

[Barry Kelly]

Graphic Overrides don't really work as you would expect.

Sure you can override a line or fill and change the pen colour, but when it comes to element (composite walls/slabs/roof, objects, etc.), you can't change a specific pen.

The entire element will be overridden.

So you may still not be able to achieve what you want.

Changing pen sets is the only way you can control individual pens.

If you only want the 5 or 6 Rotring pen thicknesses and colours, you can set that up no problem.

But that really only works if you have your own custom template and especially the library.

If you are using the default GS library, then you will need to keep the default pens used by those objects as they are - especially the thicknesses.

That is because they use specific pens to give the correct line weight so objects look correct in plan and section/elevation.

Colour is not such a problem - that is more a user preference, unless you need to print in colour of course.

I have my own custom pen set with the first 5 pens as 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4, 0.5.

They are all different colours so I know which is which visually.

I do use all the other pens for various reasons as well, but these 5 pens are what I use mainly.

If I want a line to be thin, I use pen 1.

For something like a beam centre line  or something in section, I will use pen 3.

And for a boarder line I will use pen 5.

I have my own custom library so nothing is affected.

If I use any GS objects, I have to set them to use the correct pens from my pen set.

So I have a colour pen set I use to draw/model.

Colour wise the plan makes no sense but I know the thicknesses are as I want.

When it comes to placing drawings on layouts, I have a duplicate pen set.

All the same pen thicknesses, but the colours are change to black, white and a few grey pens.

That way I can control the colour of my printed output - rather than saying to print all colours as black/white or greyscale.

I print in 'colour' but my pens in the penset I use to print are all black, white or grey.

Barry.

[mthd]

Thank you very much Barry, that is definitely a very good method you have working right there to keep things simple. I agree that GO’s do not solve the pen weight issues of the actual default  elements that Archicad puts out in each version.

I had an older template set up with my custom settings but as Archicad becomes more complex you need to continue to keep up to date with newer versions and update your template settings.

Please note this information from Central Innovations Australia & New Zealand on one of their daily tips and tricks. Please see the link below.

https://centralinnovation.com/technical-resources/tips-and-tricks/cant-change-element-attributes/

They admit as to how complicated things have become in Archicad about this issue I have raised above. 

Are things any better in version 26 with the new attribute manager ?

I think it’s because Archicad is global and so it’s standard or default settings for working drawings vary greatly all around the world ? It should be up to the local release version administrators to ensure that the settings of elements are correct for that particular part of the world. They could have a default setting for each drawing type common in our part of the world ? The Australian template library is not really a true reflection of how we do things in this part of the world these days.

Pink cover filled doors & windows for openings ? Then I have to go in a reset the all the elements that I am using. Who has time for that ? Not me !

[Barry Kelly]

---

@mthd wrote:

Are things any better in version 26 with the new attribute manager ?

It is the same attributes, just a different interface to deal with them and the ability to group some attributes in folders.

So nothing really different.

---

@mthd wrote:

Pink cover filled doors & windows for openings ? Then I have to go in a reset the all the elements that I am using. Who has time for that ? Not me !

---

The default library in the default template should work just fine.

It is when a user start playing around with the attributes in their file/template that problems arise.

That is why it is important to not change any attribute that is used in the default library.

The problem is there is no list of which attributes are actually used, it is a matter of just looking at a random selection of objects to see what they use.

Barry

[mthd]

Barry wrote: “The problem is there is no list of which attributes are actually used, it is a matter of just looking at a random selection of objects to see what they use.”

Spot on Barry, you hit the nail on the head ! We definitely need to have a list or some system of diagnostics that gives us a list of what pens are actually being used in plans elevations & section.