Graphisoft public roadmap - Follow-up conversation

[Gordana Radonic]

Dear Community, 

We're excited to have published our roadmap!

We'd love to hear your thoughts and questions. Please feel free to use this thread for discussion.

Graphisoft Insights announcement: https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Graphisoft-Insights/Graphisoft-public-roadmap/ba-p/375281

Public roadmap on the Graphisoft website.

Thank you.

[gavinNZz]

Not only does GS not want us to vote on their roadmap they also don't want to answer the questions in their own Q&A session that have been voted up by the attendees of the event. Madness. GS is NOT a customer centric software developer

[Rex Maximilian]

The. moderator served up softball questions. Anything controversial or requiring listening to an opposing viewpoint was muted... even though it was clear that the viewers wanted certain questions answered.

[torben_wadlinger]

That's the new policy. No critics, no open words. Barbie-World!

[jl_lt]

I understand why you think it might be a good idea to implement this weigthed voting system. In theory it sounds good. In practice you are saying to your solo and small office users: your voice is so small we actually dont care. It would actually be more undestandable if the majority of your user base were Big offices while the small offices and solo users were the minority; but, while i dont have the hard data, all the circumnstancial evidence points to the oposite. 

Just stop procastrinating and making excuses on this dudes. The industry, this forum users and specialy AI  developement wont stop to wait for you. Implement (or not) a simple voting system that allows you to quickly validate or discard hypotesis.... just act on it.

ohh but you want know what do big offices actually want? just ask them!  when i was deciding if i should choose Revit or Archicad, i actually wrote many of them (big ones), and they all answered in detail their thoughts on their software of choice, either Archicad or Revit.  Just ask them what they want.   Im sure their needs and small offices needs have more intersections than we might think.

Or maybe you already did that and thats why you are doing all this MEP and structural developement. Only you know that.

At the end of the day, you cannot make everyone happy. Trying to do so will result in everyone being unhappy.   Creative and visionary companies usually have the pants and minerals to stablish a vision and let people follow, not the other way around. I thought Graphisoft was one of those:     Take your input from the people in this forum (which by now should be crystal clear), take your input from your big clients, implement a simple voting system if you want to fine tune your data, and then straigthen your vision and direction. Users will follow if you have a clear vision. If you dont, they (we) probably wont.

Having said all this, it is very important to reiterate: the reason all the guys and gals here spend so much time discussing and yes, sometimes writing histerical stuff about current Archicad developement, is because WE CARE a lot for it.  THIS is the tool we use, for better or worse. Please take that into consideration.

[Holger Kreienbrink]

Did I say I multiply a BIM Managers vote with the number of licenses in the office?
No, I did not.

Understanding the background means: Understanding you. Your office size, your projects - and the resulting needs.

I know a lot of single offices, smaller ones, mid size, big offices. They have a lot in common, but not everything.

That is why we need the background information. We want to create good features for all of you. And I guess with 27 we are on a good track.

[jl_lt]

Thats right, you didnt said that. What You said is that you need a proper weighting system, which as i understand with what has been said is that it will ensure that all votes are not equal. If not that, why bother?

The older forum actually gave you a lot of these info. People posting on the gdl forum where almost by definition advanced users or would eventually become advanced users. 

People posting solutions range from medium level to expert. 

Most newbies identified themselves as one. 

Then you can ask for more lnfo on the profile.  Some people will fill it, others wont. How hard it is to extract info from this, assuming you want to profile users? 

Then you have all the data from people buying the software.   With this supposedely already available info, one should be able to get an acurate cross sectional analisis of diferent users needs today.

So the fact that you are telling us that You guys want to do it NOW so you can learn more about us, tells me that You actually dont have this info already, which is orders of magnitude more worrying.

OR there is something else we are not being told; which is okay with me; its your company and You can do whatever you want, just dont tell us fairy tale stories.

[Bruce]

I watched the Graphisoft product update 2023 last night.  Some good new features in there...straight off the roadmap!  I'm excited to use these when they get released.

[thesleepofreason]

GS have allegedly been working on a enhanced wish/idea functionality for close to two years now - for anyone without inside information it would be naive to expect anything soon. Especially given the recent official comments in this thread regarding user profiling and vote weights. Or the recently announced two tiered insight program where insider forum, road map preview, and ability to propose topics seem to be restricted to the exclusive expert only panel. GS seem hell bent on making this as complicated as possible and at the same time pushing the false narrative that there isn't anything that can be done differently. From the outside it surly looks like GS have a compulsive need to control things by internalize processes rather than taking feedback at face-value.  

A Simple First Step

Apparently some wishes/ideas at the forum get assigned an ID and supposedly entered into an internal database. Is there a difference between these and other? If not why the inconsistency? If there is a difference GS should have a understanding of the wish/idea and should be able to at least objectify it with a concept/summary, categorise it in relation to function and link/merge similar objects. Publishing such a database would make it easier for users to see what already has been wished/proposed thus avoiding duplication and adding the ability to rate would give a baseline for the needs and wants of users making it possible for users to compare how that aligns with the development of AC. What reason is there for this not being done?

[DGSketcher]

---

@thesleepofreason wrote:

GS have allegedly been working on a enhanced wish/idea functionality for close to two years now - for anyone without inside information it would be naive to expect anything soon.

These time frames should be embarrassing enough for GS to actually get on with delivering a solution rather than suggesting even more analysing is required. There's taking your time to do a job right and then there's making excuses because you don't want to deliver. Feels a lot like the latter to me. 

[Karl Ottenstein]

I find the level of frustration and accusations here by the usual dozen or fewer members interesting ... as if by pushing their views louder they will somehow have greater influence over Graphisoft's business decisions - which, after all, are about staying profitable and growing market share, even if it means losing some of us - because we are so angry that we are not listened to?

Statistics.  I don't think architects have to study statistics, so perhaps some of you insisting on one person one vote don't appreciate that any direct voting in this Community has zero statistical relevance to the entire customer base.  No self-selecting survey has valid results.  Only proper statistical sampling will result in valid results for the demographic surveyed.

So, what is Graphisoft to do?  Of course, read all of the posts in the Wish forum here - and consider the votes ("likes") that we put there.  But, in the end, they would log these features and then conduct a proper sampling of their customer base and ask that sample to vote or rank those features/wishes ... and even then, the results will be filtered through a cost benefit analysis of some kind for development vs sales/retention.

Nothing is so simple to "Just do it" as several have suggested.  All in the dream that, what, your wish will appear on the roadmap regardless of the global community's needs? 

"...grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference..."

[DGSketcher]

Do we protest too loudly Sire?

You know the position Karl, this all comes down to promises, time lines and minimal engagement, at all levels and it isn't a new phenomenon. There are on this Forum invested users passionate about the tools they use with vision on how it could be better; what is lighting the fuse is concern that the direction of development is potentially putting their investment at risk and as a species we are naturally risk averse. How many here saw SAM coming before it landed with a frustrating & disruptive bang, I didn't and I still wish it hadn't. The clamour for the voting system will have much to do with trying to avoid a similar scenario happening again. Consider it an attempt to bring back democracy to an autocratic state. GS has the option to listen or not, but as they have been doing a lot of the later then that may be the whole crux of the outspoken comments.

[Bricklyne Clarence]

I see it differently.

Maybe the frustration is the cumulative result of what happens after years upon years of users and their concerns being ignored - even while they were constantly re-assured that Graphisoft is indeed listening to their concerns and reading their comments on this (or rather the old) forum, and that just because we didn't see them respond it didn't mean they weren't taking our concerns and issues to heart and dealing with them.

Sort of like, the digital form of,..."...don't mind me or the fact that I'm closing my eyes right now as a lay back. I AM listening to you. Really. Keep talking)

Only for all of that to be turned on its head when new release version after new release version comes out year after year showing that they're doing anything but.
Especially in the most recent versions.
Perhaps they are listening to some people.
But from the looks of it, it barely seems like they are people who post complaints or raise issues or post wishes on the forum or even much less who are in the profession at all.

So when we seemingly finally get a genuine article GS bigwig or developer on here, of course there's bound to be some of that frustration boiling over, coming to the fore and pouring out.
One would have to be naïve to the extreme to expect otherwise.

As for the assertion that it's only the "usual dozen or fewer" members you see complaining (and I assume I'm one of them) and pushing their views louder - the idea that just because the majority that you don't see complaining or being vocal are not being vocal, must therefore mean....what? that they're satisfied with the software and direction that Graphisoft has been taking?

As opposed to, I don't know,....maybe just having been conditioned to the state of mind that complaining or raising an issue about anything on this forum is a waste of time and pointless exercise.
Years of being ignored will usually do that to people.

It all just feels a little like trying to invalidate the opinions, views and feelings of people complaining just because they're complaining "the loudest" or the most frequently.

Graphisoft have no one to blame but themselves for this current state of affairs and that users would have this perception about them.

If at all it even bothers them that they do.

It surely must on some level if they're going through all this effort with this Roadmap publication and some level of an attempt at public and customer engagement beyond their usual siloed key client conferences and their siloed webinars.

People are complaining because people request that we get improvements to the door tool, window tool, wall tools, User-interface.....but instead they get SAM, DDSCAD and MEP on steroids ad nauseum.

Instead they get circle extrude and copy.

It's just that simple, Karl.

Whether it's just 12 of us or less, ....or perhaps hundreds if not thousands more who just happen not to have time to complain be vocal because they have to fiddle their way around workarounds in the program, juggle client and consultant schedules, run a business, make a living and otherwise make those whole thing work somehow.

My stance has always been that I'm going to give them the benefit of doubt with this new approach they seem to be taking until we get that new version (or versions, really.....I don't expect much different in this years or even next years release given how long it takes for suggestions to percolate downstream the development process and make it into an actual release version), and we see if any of it is really taking.

[Romans]

Hi Bricklyne, thank you for the very well-written and appropriate reply to Karls's disrespectful and arrogant post. When I have read the post from Karl first I simply was without words.

I think most of the (”fewer”?) permanently active users here in the forum are long-term Archicad users with huge knowledge and insights into the software, There is also a long-time investment in this tool (a lot of money and endless working hours among others). They really care about it and are only interested to make it better (not only for themselves). These people does not deserve such an ignorant attitude (”even if it means losing some of us”). What would it be to lose such dedicated hard-core users? To get a silent community? 

[thesleepofreason]

Quite arrogant post that would be better ignored but since you point in my direction rather demeaningly it merits a response.

I'm under no illusion of GS business decisions being driven by anything other than profits, or ultimately Nemetschek's share dividend and I assume that there already are enough statistical valid surveys in place to that end - although I expect that they are focused on marketing and pricing rather than application functionality. So you miss the point of the request for a proper idea/wish feature - it isn't about providing GS with statistically valid information for their decisions but to make it possible for users to unify and amplify their voices and to establish a reference point for the need and wants of users that are interested enough in AC to be active members of the community. This could of course be done as a separate user initiative but GS not only overtook the old forum which likely would have been a better platform for that but also alluded to the timely introduction of "a feature that will help us process your wishes and ideas in much better way with a proper feedback". Closing in on two years and we still haven't heard a word about it from GS until now when all of a sudden there is this huge statistical/technical/organisational/whatever issue. Yes, in the end it's up to GS if they actually want to contribute to and interact with the community around their product or if they just want to use it as a source of information and target for marketing but it takes some ignorance to be perplexed by invested community members backlash to GS behaviour.

[jl_lt]

Hey! Rex finally got that coveted FBX feature which will benefit many. So why not?    Much more worrysome would be that no one writes anything

Anyway, taking 2 years to process and classify information they already have or should have doesnt sound about right for a technology company of this caliber. Also wasting 4+ years on sub-par features. 

Maybe something else is going on?

[Rex Maximilian]

Haha! I'd like to take credit, but I'm sure the reason for finally having FBX I/O had to do with their eyes finally being opened to the industry standards developing for 3D assets by way of their own research. I'm sure finding out. they're probably the last A-class level 3D software NOT to have it was a bit of an eye opener also. I'd probably say my ranting about it "delayed" it just out of spite! 😂

[mthd]

Hey Rex, you spoke a lot about a clear roadmap being provided by GS to us before it was even out. Did you have an influence on that or was that simply a coincidence ? Whatever the case we are grateful that we actually have one now to look at and see what is coming and what is being developed for the future. It makes a big difference to all of us involved.

[jl_lt]

Probably they got pissed and delayed it just to keep conversations going 😂

Joke aside, i really think it does help to reiterate these kind of things so that no one forgets, whomever it might piss off.   Little plants like the spiny sandbur (Cenchrus Echinatus) stick themselves to an unsuspecting host producing a very unconfortable itch and/or minor lacerations, making the host want to scratch it;  or in this case, hopefully making Graphisoft want to implement long requested improvements.

The roadmap is already there. how long will it take, that is what we dont know

[mthd]

Hi Karl, even if some of us are quite disgruntled at times we still use Archicad and we are still here. I didn’t think there was anything wrong with the complaints about the AC26 release being very lean on content. Whether that was a hangover of the pandemic or not ? What if one or more of those coming soon features was put into AC26 like DO’s, would there have been as big a complaint ? If those features were ready on time that is. Maybe some of us will still complain and we probably need a complaints department part of the forum to keep it out of the public eye ? 

Not everything in Archicad is exactly right otherwise the roadmap lists wouldn’t be so big. It’s true that some of the basic functionality needs time and care and have been neglected or traded off for other newer features. As long as we voice our complaints in a nice way and keep on asking for what we really need, we might just get it in time ? I waited 20 years for DG’s and they are finally here. Hooray Hooray !

[Pato99]

I think this is absolute crap and I think this roadmap shows everything wrong with ArchiCADs progress.

People are mad because they were right all these years.

If you want to talk market share. AC is dying in my region, I can't find residential designers because Revit is taking over the market. There is no more value picking AC over Revit for residential design anymore. Revit is a standalone product that will continue to improve while AC focuses on other industries and drops the ball.  

The roadmap bs and all those features might as well be in the idea pool, there's no release version or date. In Progress, Coming Soon, Under Research... What does it mean? Are we getting Coming Soon content in hotfixes or is this V28 V29 V30 and beyond? if that's so the offering is trash and very heavily focused on one industry! If you don't agree with, let the votes talk. 

Take UE5 roadmap and the Microsoft roadmap, both massive with multiple products, massive user base while supporting countless industries. Still, they are able to support a voting system.

At least, drop the 'ideas pool' and make that an upvote system. Top of the list (if feasible) gets into roadmap, but if not, GS dev team explain why.

Found this in the wish list, quickly on it's way to the top. 

ArchiCAD Roadmap - Vote system - Graphisoft Community 

[Rob]

Hi Patrick,

Fair points and I understand your sentiment, knowing the Australian market fairly well. I appreciate that the current Roadmap format is not ideal and definitely needs some interactivity in terms of customer/user feedback. The good news is that we are already working on the concept how we could improve it. The idea is not just to implement some kind of Roadmap voting system, but couple it up with Wishlist and use those two aspects as a driver for our future Roadmap priorities and adjustments. We are in a conceptual stage and we do really welcome any feedback, should it be negative or positive as well as examples of existing and effective solutions. The ultimate goal of our exercise is to introduce more clarity and transparency in this area. However, that requires a lot of consideration in terms of technical and procurement aspects, e.g. connecting our internal systems and establishing processes that could efficiently cater for a swift feedback to our contributing community. The actual (current) content of Roadmap is rather different story, which I do not want to discuss now, I am merely trying to say that we are working on steps to significantly improve this experience for you.