Door and Window Frame to Match wall depth?

[Anonymous]

Hello,

I have checked the available documentation and can't seem to find where one may set a window and/or door frame depth to match a wall depth. This command or setting was mentioned in another topic on this forum.

Thanks,

Mark Hendricks

[Anonymous]

Seiss wrote:
My question is this: why doesn't Graphisoft hire USA consultants to design USA libraries? I am not being sarcastic here, have you ever look through the objects library, half the crap in it I have never seen, and half the window objects are not in any USA catalog I have ever used. My advice to Graphisoft, just call up an Anderson window rep, get a catalog, and copy it. You will have 99% of all USA window configurations in your hands. It's really not that hard to do, a no brainer, if you just try.

I believe that the SE9 library was created/is maintained by people here in the US. The problem is that practices vary widely across the country and the myriad of different building methods, wall types, etc. makes a one size fits all library very difficult.

As far as copying the Andersen catalog. Andersen windows are the biggest selling windows in the country but don't work to represent all windows used here. Their installation details are very specific and do not lend themselves to many common situations (particularly in historical or renovation work). The application of exterior trims is the most obvious problem. In fact they recently bought Eagle to address their lack of product flexibility for getting into commercial and high end residential projects. I would have to say that for the vast majority of my work an Andersen specific library would not serve my needs.

I do still wonder if there is a place for a really basic door and window library to avoid the impossible task of being all things to all people, but it would probably suffer from being not enough for anyone. I think the ultimate solution is the one I suggested here.

[Anonymous]

Karl,

I'm still curious. Which doors and windows are working for you "out of the box"? Are your wood doors able to fit automatically to the wall thickness?

[Karl Ottenstein]

Matthew wrote:
Karl,

I'm still curious. Which doors and windows are working for you "out of the box"? Are your wood doors able to fit automatically to the wall thickness?

I looked too quickly. It is the jamb extension that automatically matches the wall thickness, not the frame. So, you guys are correct that a frame=wall thickness option is not available in the SE9 windows.

Karl

[Seiss Wagner]

MATTHEW -

I completely agree with you, "one size cannot fit all". I was not thinking of every possible matrix of assembly when I suggest the Anderson window catalog, but of the basic unit types and unit combinations. For example, take a look at the casement window folder in the SE9 library. Notice that you must scroll through twelve of the most arcane window combination ever imagined before you find the standard casement window W1, and the fairly popular "French Casement", W2 Casement, is the last window in the list. This is why I wonder if the library was really compiled by a USA user.

In regards to your "here" link; I think these are sound ideas, and in a way, the new ability in the SE9 library to transfer parameters with the eyedropper from object icon to object icon addresses some of your thoughts. But don't you think it would be more productive if one could just build their window or door in a fashion similar to Cadimage "DoorWindow Builder."

I think the hang-up is that Graphisoft keeps pursuing doors and windows and their associated "openings" as a placed object like a toilet or hot-water heater. As an Architect I don't build toilet or a hot-water heater assemblies, but I do build window and door assemblies called "openings, and have since the beginning of time.

Thus, what is really needed is an assembly tool that allows the user to build door and window "openings" by browsing through standard library parts like the door and window objects, with their associated sashes, frames, muntin and mullions, and assemble them with other objects from the library which are not part of the window or door, such as jamb extensions, brick moldings, casings, sills, stools, etc., found in the MSA detailed library, and build a door or window opening, which then can be displayed and replicated as an object itself. I think this is called "model building", and here we would build a model inside the model.

In such a system Jay Garbarino could put outside trims over his exterior siding and I could chose to butt my siding to the trims. Just as in real life, the assembly of the objects is distinct from the objects themselves.

[Anonymous]

Seiss wrote:
Thus, what is really needed is an assembly tool that allows the user to build door and window "openings" by browsing through standard library parts like the door and window objects, with their associated sashes, frames, muntin and mullions, and assemble them with other objects from the library which are not part of the window or door, such as jamb extensions, brick moldings, casings, sills, stools, etc., found in the MSA detailed library, and build a door or window opening, which then can be displayed and replicated as an object itself. I think this is called "model building", and here we would build a model inside the model.

In such a system Jay Garbarino could put outside trims over his exterior siding and I could chose to butt my siding to the trims. Just as in real life, the assembly of the objects is distinct from the objects themselves.

This is exactly where I was headed with the multiple macro idea. It seems like something that could be done in the short run leading eventually to a full assembly editor. I agree that the fundamental problem here is that the door/window tool treats the elements as discrete entities when they are very often complex custom assemblies.

The next step after the multiple macros are in place is to allow multiple units to be identified as a single assembly and then assign additional elements (such as casings) to that. The tricky bit is that this shouldn't just be limited to openings. There are other complex assemblies (such as stairs) that should also be managed by the assembly editor. This means that the interface must be developed toward this broader purpose, which of course requires more thought and design work.

To their credit, the developers of the SE library did a nice job of making it possible to gang the doors and windows and still have the trims work, which gives us a bit of the assembly function. It's too bad there is no way to group the openings to move them as a unit though.

I agree with you about the file organization. I also find it annoying to always be scrolling past doors or windows I rarely (or never) use to get to the two or three that I use all the time.

[Anonymous]

OK I bought and will use the widnow and door builder from CAD Image since it appears to have all of the things that I need (I Hope)

I still like Archicad(after 6 months) better than Chief Architect (after 10 years)

Thanks,


Mark Hendricks

[Djordje]

Matthew wrote:
To their credit, the developers of the SE library did a nice job of making it possible to gang the doors and windows and still have the trims work, which gives us a bit of the assembly function. It's too bad there is no way to group the openings to move them as a unit though.

... or to mark them as one, with one marker - as they would have to be marked. SE or Int library, does not make a difference.

[Anonymous]

Seiss wrote:
This seems strange to me as the SE9 library was billed as a USA library. A drywall jamb return with a wood sill and apron is probably the most common interior window finish used in USA production housing. In my custom work, many clients like 5/8" drywall with a 2" bullnose return used in combination with a 2x6 exterior wood stud wall. I can't do that with with the SE9 library.

My problem has been with getting the SE Lib to replicate the Exterior trim that almost 90% of the "Standard" Home has here in the Mountains. We do not use Exterior Sills (Almost Never). getting the exterior trim to Just "picture frame" the Window has proven to difficult for me with the SE Lib. I even read through the PDF docs on the SE Lib.......

I hope that it is not my stupidity, but the library that is at fault, or AC10 will have no joy for me. Since SE is the Pre AC 10 Library.

[Seiss Wagner]

JAY -

If you are looking for a brick molding surround for a flanged window in a plaster or wood siding wall here is how to do it.

1. I am using a non-composite wall.
2. Select the window settings dialog between the Parameter and Floor Plan tabs.
3. Set the wall type to "Stud Wall".
4. Set "Casing Out" and "Sill Out".
5. Go to the "Casing" tab and set it to "Custom"; set "Custom" to to 2" for a 2" wide brick mold trim.
6. Set the dialog box below "Custom" to 0.25" thick to allow the brick mold to just project beyond the surface of the non- composite wall. Don't set to zero unless you want to crash the ArchiCAD application.
7. Go to the "Sill" tab and set "Casing" to 2" to match the brick mold width set under the "Casing" tab.
8. Leave "Bottom Frame @ Sill" unchecked.
9. Set the sill width to 2" to match the brick mold.
10. Set the box below that to "Off" to eliminate the apron trim.
11. Set the sill extension to 0.25". Once again, to avoid crashing, do not set to zero.

There you have it, simple as pie.

I might add this is only the beginning..... I you really want torture, just try to make a dry wall return.

My point is not so much to help Jay, but to illustrate just how difficult and non-intuitive the process is. It took me hours of trial and error, over several days, and at least 2 or 3 dozen AC crashes ,to formulate the 15 window and 18 door TYPES for my current custom home project, using the SE9 Library.

I just don't think it should be that difficult to set a window or door trim.

As for Matthew's and Djordje's comment: not only can you not group and mark ganged windows with one mark, but if you run "Calculate > List Elements > Window Legend 9" you get each ganged window as separate window, which makes no sense to the estimator making the window take-off because he does not see the window package as a single unit, which is the way they are to be built... utterly worthless.

Parenthetically, I might add here, that if you do run "Calculate > List Elements > Window Legend 9" you will get the windows in a jumble of outlined boxes, all on top of each other. With patients, the windows in the legend can be re-grouped, moved, and straighten out, but at what cost in time? And guess what, each time you revise your windows and re-run the legend, you have to reorganize the legend again?

It just makes you want to cry.

To be sure, ganged windows should not automatically be grouped, some assemblies are just to large to be built and shiped as one unit, but the option should be there to group ganged windows as required. For examples, see the bottom of pages 124 & 125 of the current 2006 Anderson window catalog.

Also, it should be noted that the SE9 library does not allow you to gang and group windows with doors, once again, a very common condition in the USA market.

Should I hop like a frog: Revit, Revit, Revit?

[Rakela Raul]

after so many years of using the same type of details for doors or windows trims,

personally it seems easier to have a standard detail to be included in your set as even a jpeg, instead of fighting with archicad and its libs and re-drawing it for every project.

i would like to have the ability to draw every single detail in the same manner as a modeling software would do, but i dont think it is absolutely necessary, i even consider it a waste of time.