ArchiCAD 9 is shipping in mid-September!

[Bence Kovacs]

Dear Archi-Talkers,

We are happy to announce on ArchiCAD-Talk that ArchiCAD 9 will be released in September 2004. Shipment will start with the INT, US and GER versions followed by other localized language versions over the coming months. Based on the results of extensive beta testing we are confident that this version will be the most robust version of ArchiCAD ever. Please check www.graphisoft.com for the official press release on ArchiCAD 9! And... enjoy!

Bence Kovacs
Vice President

ArchiCAD Product Management
Graphisoft

[Thomas Holm]

oreopoulos wrote:

How can V9 be a step forward when we dont get not even one step forward in the data extraction part.

If you can't see that, you don't have to upgrade. It's as simple as that.

I will. I've worked with Microstation, and other CAD systems. I think AC9 is a significant step forward, in functionality, and in developer attitude, regardless of wether one or the other change has been on the wishlist for a month or for ten years. I know others think like I do, as well as I know people who think like you. One or the other, I think we've all got your point by now. Please stop your wailing unless you have something NEW to add!
IMHO,
Thomas

[Anonymous]

Thomas wrote:
oreopoulos wrote:


If you can't see that, you don't have to upgrade. It's as simple as that.

I will. I've worked with Microstation, and other CAD systems. I think AC9 is a significant step forward, in functionality, and in developer attitude, regardless of wether one or the other change has been on the wishlist for a month or for ten years. I know others think like I do, as well as I know people who think like you. One or the other, I think we've all got your point by now. Please stop your wailing unless you have something NEW to add!
IMHO,
Thomas

Well you are beggining to get personal and i dont want to continue at that direction because i can be as insulting as you without even understanding that.

You think that is ok. Thats fine. It covers your needs
Thats fine.
But you did not answer not EVEN one of the simple arguments i made.
NOT EVEN one. Liking it is not an argument.

If you have to answer with some creative comment do so.. But an answer like a polite "shut up we have heard you but we are happy with what we have" is simply sad.

[KeesW]

Who is Oreopoulos? He has now attracted a disciple called KLLK. I've been off the list for several weeks and found every second or third message by him (or her) - always negative, always harping on the same thing. You've well and truly hammered home your point - now please get off the list!! I don't understand why you even want to continue with Archicad - I'd avoid the upgrade if I were you.

Perhaps others on the list should contribute to buy him (or her) a piece of perfect software - Autocad perhaps?

[Anonymous]

Oreopoulos,

Have you actually had a chance to use 9? The productivity improvements are substantial.

Graphisoft has not done the best job marketing/describing these improvements, and after the HUGE feature upgrade (too much in fact) of 8.0 the list of new features in 9 may look short, but it is a significant upgrade.

It reminds me of version 6.5 (which was a paid upgrade) in which the major advances of version 6.0 were consolidated into much greater productivity. BUT ArchiCAD 9 is a MUCH larger upgrade than 6.5 which had no major new features.

I (and others I know who remember) regarded the upgrades to 4.1, 4.55, and 6.5 to be some of the most significant improvements to ArchiCAD since they were focused on improving productivity rather than adding new features.

At the end of the day it is the productivity enhancements that let you go home sooner. On the other hand new features require additional time to learn and incorporate into office standards. The new features are nice, but come with a cost that must be paid for out of the gains in productivity.

Finally, the tone of this discussion has deteriorated badly. Please, let us all limit ourselves to constructive discussion (and criticism, and even praise) of specific features (or the lack thereof) in ArchiCAD 9.

General ranting was OK back when we were all suffering the pain of ArchiCAD 8.0 and needed to vent our frustration, but ArchiCAD 9 is a good solid step forward for the program and does not deserve to be bashed. Anyone who feels it does not have enough to offer them can wait for version 10. I know many users who skipped 7.0 (and, with any luck, 8.0) and upgraded from 6.5 to 8.1.

[Anonymous]

KeesW wrote:
Who is Oreopoulos? He has now attracted a disciple called KLLK. I've been off the list for several weeks and found every second or third message by him (or her) - always negative, always harping on the same thing. You've well and truly hammered home your point - now please get off the list!! I don't understand why you even want to continue with Archicad - I'd avoid the upgrade if I were you.

Perhaps others on the list should contribute to buy him (or her) a piece of perfect software - Autocad perhaps?

Why are you getting personal?
I have alot of praising commends if you read them.
We are having a discussion and i dont understand why you are annoyed.
If we have read my posts you would see what is my opinion of autodesk and its behaviour about autocad.

Whats more Djordje as a moderator are members allowed to tell others to get off the list just because they dissagree? If yes please inform me so i can answer in the impolite manner the previous one has responted.
I can be insulting, and that is easy, but i am holding for now.

And because the last one simply is not in a position to understand my point of view, i inform him that i am going to upgrade (depending on price of course) but THAT is not the point.
The point is creative discussion and answering with arguments.
I am not responting using a fake name or a nick and i think i am making positive arguments..

Just answer.. is it illogical to expect a new BIM program in its new version to provide an enchanment of its data extraction tools? (especially if there is a long way from beeing complete.)
This is my definition of progress versus refiinement.

To be fair most programs behave like that. My enginniring program is asked to provide finite element for plates for more than 10 years now, but no sign of them.. We users shout until we are listened.

Any irrational thoughts? I think not.

I am not here to market the product... I do that to my colleagues when comparing it with autocad.
We are here to point the negative side.
If you are not at ease with that... the problem is not mine.

All clear...

(i hope my english is not a problem to express what i think)

[Anonymous]

whooooaaaaa, kees w..........i really like your tone!!!

"Who is Oreopoulos?"
you forgot to add "who THE FUCK is oreopulous?"

"He has now attracted a disciple"
no, im more of his sex slave! i lick his feet and dance to his music!!!!!!

"Perhaps others on the list should contribute to buy him (or her) a piece of perfect software - Autocad perhaps?"
its very much HIM, rest assured! and perhaps i should contribute to buy you some manners!?!?!?!

ill get off the list, have no fear! as long as i dont have to hear from you again!


my apologies to everybody else for descending the discussion to such a low level.

[MarinRacic]

Just my 0,02 worth...

I agree 50-50 with statements from Oreopoulos on the one side and the rest of ACtalkers who are defending AC9 on the other - yes, usability and stability ARE major upgrades and for my work, very important thing is the DWG improvements that is made.
However, I fear that if AC10 isn't going to have heaps of long time whishes integrated (free form walls, completely custom windows, walls height attached to stories, real time redraw of multiple windows, stairmaker that actually makes stairs etc) that it's going to fall way behind other BIM tools, namely Revit and Allplan.

A friend of mine uses Allplan full time and most of the whishes I wrote down are already a part of Allplan so the only thing that's stopping me from converting is OS X, excellent DWG protocol and the fact that I know bunch of workarounds in ArchiCAD. I really hope that GS listens and that the next major upgrade will have those new functions added...

It would be a real shame if AC would fail because some basic functions weren't implemented, especially because it's obvious it's not Mission Impossible to implement them considering other BIM tools!

[Fabrizio Diodati]

Dear friends,

just to put my two cents on this table…
I suppose (but maybe I’m wrong) that everybody here, more or less, loves ArchiCAD otherwise, if someone really hates to work with it probably he could leave it for another CAD.
On the other side, for sure, the fact that I love ArchiCAD doesn’t mean I cannot post productive criticisms about the last update or about we still miss after a lot of years.

So, for sure, Mr. Oreopoulos, can (and must!) say whatever he wants: this is a public/free forum and everybody can post their complaining/suggestion.

But the main point still remains the same: before to say it is a bad update, please try it!
You cannot say it is a good update or it is a bad update without trying it.
I also agree with some posts saying that this update doesn’t include so many features (also if the users ask for a “fixed” version before implementing new features) but after using it for a while I realize once again (unfortunately I’m getting older and older and from my first version – Radar/CH 3.43 – just more than some years are passed!) that often the most important issues, those one which really help us in our daily job, are not the most “clear” but those little things which appear “little/silly” improvement but which than make the difference.

So, I really think that we could kindly ask Oreopoulos if he already tried ArchiCAD 9 (no other questions) and only if the answer will be ”yes” then anybody can ask other info but, please, always in a friendly (let me say ArchiCAD-like) way.

Friendly
Fabrizio

[Petros Ioannou]

Just a quote:
the act of wanting and asking for more from your favorite CAD application is not something to be condemned. I believe that even GS folks are on the same route as Oreopoulos or else we wouldn't have any development in AC or we would be stuck with AutoCAD. Imagine this: what do you expect from the next Archicad version? better interface, better workflow? I don't think so. These are solved in 9. Probably some of the features that people like Oreopoulos and others suggested. The argue is more about when these features are going to be implemented in AC. So just sit for a moment and that goes mostly for Kees and imagine what AC 10 should be? If with 9 you can fulfill all your drawing/project tasks then there is no need to imagine.
Being a beta tester I argued at the begging of the beta test thinking that there are no new features.. In fact there were. And I am not talking about lightworks (I am a C4D user). It has to do with the overall sense of the application. It is faster. You are able to produce the same (and a little more) as in AC 8.1 but faster! This is a reason to upgrade! But not a reason to stop you for wanting more. So to conclude it is a matter of when these improvements are delivered.

And some comments on the modeling capabilities in AC:
I am disappointed every time someone asks here something like : "how do I create a space frame?"
he gets an answer :
a)there is one in the library under...
b) there a good one in objects online ...worked fine for me!
c) GDL?
d) modeling using the existing AC tools (the less popular IMHO)

a) & b) are off the question. Does anyone thinks that 2 or three spaceframe objects can cover the whole planet's need for space frames?
Do AC users need libraries and not tools?
(The world is full of AutoCAD libraries someone can use them in AC 5 also)
Since archicad is real world construction oriented, to have the ability to model those real time situations. And by saying model I am not only referring to the 3d object but the whole VB package (2da representation, components materials,lists etc) which is something that AC has
c) is partially acceptable since it requires a lot of time.

What I am proposing is improve of the d) solution.

[Anonymous]

Fabrizio wrote:
But the main point still remains the same: before to say it is a bad update, please try it!
You cannot say it is a good update or it is a bad update without trying it.
I also agree with some posts saying that this update doesn’t include so many features (also if the users ask for a “fixed” version before implementing new features) but after using it for a while I realize once again (unfortunately I’m getting older and older and from my first version – Radar/CH 3.43 – just more than some years are passed!) that often the most important issues, those one which really help us in our daily job, are not the most “clear” but those little things which appear “little/silly” improvement but which than make the difference.

So, I really think that we could kindly ask Oreopoulos if he already tried ArchiCAD 9 (no other questions) and only if the answer will be ”yes” then anybody can ask other info but, please, always in a friendly (let me say ArchiCAD-like) way.

Friendly
Fabrizio

First of all thx for the reply.
We do not disagree. I have NOT used v9 BUT even if i had i suppose my objections are still valid.
I NEVER spoke against the quality of V9 and the features that have been included.
The discussion is all about needs and priorities.
Many may not use the BIM capabilities of AC and may not need impovements there but that does not mean that they should not be added.
InteraciveSchedule is a great great great feature. But it lacks some simple features such as defining fields based eg on a formula or on certain criteria. That would save valuable time form exporting to a spreadsheet and doing the work there. i expected some imporvement there. The fact it does not exist does not change if i use the program or not. I am not negative to the features added.

I am just trying to prevent a repetition of the story in V10 whenever it comes.

I have a suggestion.
Devide our needs in categories.
Like Building tools, Annotating tools, Customising tools, Interface tools, Calculation tools.. and so on.
An keep a list of those features (like archiideas.com for example)
But it should be a team work and give the list to GS expecting BALANCED distribution of features.
We cannot have 10 Annotating new tools an 0 calculation because we dont all have the same needs.

I am trying to be constructive but some think i am trying to offend there child and they are way to wrong.