Archicad 25

[Narska]

Where can I find a list of what new goodies we can expect in the next version of archicad?

[riyadist]

I think the company shrinks and can not make any profit. There are lots of wishes and they skip all ideas.

Nothing exciting in 25 version.

Let down again!

[Jp1138]

jl_lt wrote:

insideru wrote:

I, for one, would be extremely happy if they do this ... and i think you all should be. Getting a new version with fewer features, but with much fewer bugs during the first months, and getting the rest of the features later is a much better plan than just not using the new version because of X bug, thus losing access to some new features that aren't bugged (i won't mention new versions that reactivated old bugs, but that seems to be a thing lately).

I wouldnt mind it either. id actually like it very much, to have incremental updates without relation to a yearly cycle which i agree is not sustainable.

I would be very nice, but I also think then it would be more reasonable to have some sort of roadmap of what to wait for. It wouldn´t have to be attached to major versions, just what´s in the works and what can be expected in the short, medium or long term.

[Podolsky]

It seems you are suggesting stealing ArchiCAD or any other software is ok as long as you have a "good" reason to steal it.

You completely missing the point. Architects stealing all the time ideas of each other. Property developers are stealing projects from architects. Builders stealing tools and building materials from site. The all construction industry is stealing money from people by overpricing property value and selling to you an apartment for the price 10 times higher then it worth.
And if there is a chance to get something for free - most people consider to take it.

Software piracy is unique phenomena and through all history of computers were discussions - shall software be for free. There is unique movement between programmers, called open source and GNU licence. Today under this licence developed quite a lot of software: UNIX, Linux, Android, Blender, GIMP, Google applications, Open Office, Apache... the list is actually big and it's getting bigger. Some of them just free some of them open source...
The idea of open source and GNU that software is part of hardware and you don't need to pay for it. Any hardware has software - and people never even thought to buy it. Like you never paying for software in calculator or TV - when they actually also have some OS there. Apple mostly following this logic - as nobody is paying for MacOS or iOS.
Piracy mostly following this idea. They actually consider themselves Robin Goods. Helping poor people to be more educated in computers. So you can say anything you want, but piracy always will exist.

The question I'm rising is that there is evidence showing that Graphisoft never tried hard to protect their software from piracy. They always had a chance to protect ArchiCAD that it would be "uncrackable", but this chance (apart of version 6) was dismissed. By another hand - done a little to provide solid solution to big architectural and construction companies (on corporative level). Any big company (50 and more employees) will suffer using ArchiCAD in their business. Or they need also to have their own GDL programmers and Add-ons developers, who will re-introduce some of ArchiCAD functionality, how it happens in Japan (is it Cadjima corporation?)

So Graphisoft is not targeting segment of the market, that could bring them more money.
What top managers of Graphisoft are thinking - I don't understand. But seems they are not very good strategists in business - especially looking how quickly Revit took the market worldwide. Last promise we all hear in version 24 to make ArchiCAD software number one on BIM market currently did not happen. Reminds more promise of Donald Trump make America great again.

[DGSketcher]

I think a constant drip feeding of updates containing bug fixes, workflow improvements & minor features would be a good strategy. The Big push to upgrade could then be driven by must have new features like internal modules. I share the disappointment of this release, but from the Beta bugs I have a feeling there is some deep restructuring of the code in progress which, hopefully, will bring positive changes in the near future.

[DGSketcher]

Podolsky wrote:
But seems they are not very good strategists in business - especially looking how quickly Revit took the market worldwide.

I don't think GS dropped the ball when Revit turned up, it is the classic problem that AutoDe$k are so well established in the CAD market, their previous customers blindly followed into their 3D solution believing it to be the safest and "best" route for collaboration. So basically nothing GS could do would stop Revit gaining traction.

[Podolsky]

When I was young and stupid, I though that AutoCAD is totally sh....y program. But now I don't think so. AutoDesk are serious guys. By the way - who developed IFC? AutoDesk.
They're providing with serious solutions - always working on it. Revit took the market because nobody else could be bothered to make some efforts.
Sometimes I think, how my life would establish, if I followed Revit instead of ArchiCAD. People everywhere need Revit specialists and offer really big money. I probably would be rich now. Write some Python scripts on Dynamo...

Instead of that I'm looking to this chaos of fills and RGB in ArchiCAD 25. I'm looking and thinking - are you kidding me?

[Bricklyne Clarence]

DGSketcher wrote:
I think a constant drip feeding of updates containing bug fixes, workflow improvements & minor features would be a good strategy. The Big push to upgrade could then be driven by must have new features like internal modules. I share the disappointment of this release, but from the Beta bugs I have a feeling there is some deep restructuring of the code in progress which, hopefully, will bring positive changes in the near future.

This is what people say.......EVERY ....year.......particularly beta testers, and the usual coterie of apologists and eternal evangelists from the gospel of GS.

Every.
Year!

And yet seemingly every year, over the last couple of versions in particular, the new feature upgrades list per version, of REAL actual functionality improvements (useful to people actually IN architecture and design and small users) seems to be an ever diminishing return and an ever shrinking feature in and of itself.

Just to recap over the last several versions,....since version 22 that had the most significant feature upgrade in the Curtain wall tool getting major revisions and improvements in almost 10 years since it was first introduced, we've had...

Version 23 - main feature uprgade was that wall hole tool - which, while good, most users had long since already figured out (admittedly clunky) workarounds around that issue.

Version 24 - main feature upgrade was a tool benefitting a whole entire other profession that are not even primarily Archicad users or architects who work using that workflow (which I'm willing to bet is the vast majority of users.

And now you have version 25 who's major improvements are upgrades of sorts to the above two features from the previous versions (that either weren't that heavily requested nor are that majorly used) along with a couple of other "tool improvements" which, while not in themselves bad, still make people scratch their heads and wonder, ...."Is this really what development resources and time and energy is being spent on?"
Particularly when there's a whole slew of other legacy issues that continue to go unaddressed while in other areas the program seems to get left way waaay behind by technological improvements on the hardware side that their rivals have already gotten on the bus with (looking at multi-monitor usage and full utilization of modern powerful GPU's.....on BOTH platforms in particular.......as an example)

In fact, I'd even argue that the last version with a really significant tool upgrade - that wasn't just a 'refresh' of an already existing tool, but rather a major revision and particular of one majorly requested over a long time - was version 21 with the major Stair tool and Rail tool upgrades (And even those still have outstanding issues to address beyond what was touched on in this version. Where the hell is a dedicated Ramp tool or ramp feature or function of the same tool for crying out loud? And please don't point me to the limited ramp object in the library.)

And it's been coming for the longest time.
Version 20 was largely a (literal) cosmetic upgrade with the interface getting "upgraded"
Version 19 was a largely 'under-the-hood' improvements version...
v18 was the Cinerender integration which was really work by other people other than GS, but whatever, and then you have to get all the way back to v16 and v17 with the Morph tool for the other major tool upgrade before that.

....but still,....

We're all just supposed to just have faith ....or something, that something major is in the works for the long term, that's going on behind the scenes or under the hood that they're laying the groundwork for,.....that most of use not in the know or deep in the weeds are simply not aware of.

Just have trust in the plan, have faith .....like it's some religion at this point (.....or a cult or a pyramid scheme).

Is it therefore any wonder that more and more people now want an open roadmap for development plans going forward to be published to know exactly what's what and to lay out and see if there really is the makings of any of this "grand plan"?

'I share the disappointment of this release',... is going to become the new mantra of new version announcements and releases going forward, methinks.

.....papered over and sugar-sprinkled with,..'...but have faith. Great stuff is coming up'


Geeez.

[Erwin Edel]

It just feels like GS has been plugging holes with more holes for a while now.

Reminds me of times in the past we had in our office where we had to submit half finished sets of documentation for permits to meet deadlines and fix them when the remarks about flaws came back. Your overall planning is fundamentally flawed at that point (you can't meet deadlines, you are understaffed or in our case the workflow is inefficient). It takes a pretty long time to catch up and in the meantime you are putting in more effort to fix problems that shouldn't have been there.

In NL we are ussually a few months behind on the release, due to localisation, but I generally see all the bugs and crashes on every release being discussed here. I generally don't touch a new version until the first 1 or 2 patches (or 'updates') have been out and then often on a 'fresh' project.

I still haven't used AC24 yet. It takes time and effort to update work environments and templates for new version and I saw very little reason. AC25 doesn't seem to offer much new, so that might a point to 'jump in' again (not a lot of work beyond that needed for AC23>AC24).

I did find AC23 offered a lot of speed upgrades. There seems to be a lot 'boring' work going on there and it tends to get taken for granted. There have been a few other versions that offered performance increases in this regard.

I do not like 'incremental' changes to existing versions though. Some of these updates will break existing workflow and that's the last thing I want over the course of a project. It used to be 'stick with the version it was drafted in' and that meant smooth sailing. If half way through our project in AC2x the stair tool gets and overhaul, we can't really go back unless we decide to not update AC2x to the latest version (which will also come with bug fixes).

[DGSketcher]

@Bricklyne, I hear you, we are on the same page and I agree with everything you say. I am as frustrated as a lot of people. Users need to let their feelings known if GS are to take notice. I am no apologist for GS, personally I don't know why stuff takes so long to fix or develop, why do new features create so many unrelated bugs, is the program code out of control, are the developers under resourced, is Vectorworks the new golden child and AC is the testing ground, are share holders taking too much of the pie? I wish I knew the answers.

[Jp1138]

Erwin wrote:
...

I do not like 'incremental' changes to existing versions though. Some of these updates will break existing workflow and that's the last thing I want over the course of a project. It used to be 'stick with the version it was drafted in' and that meant smooth sailing. If half way through our project in AC2x the stair tool gets and overhaul, we can't really go back unless we decide to not update AC2x to the latest version (which will also come with bug fixes).

That´s a very good point I hadn´t really considered. The updates should be modular and only in version changes become part of the program, just as RFA import or Param-o, which were optionals addins first. That way they would´nt disrupt current projects if you didn´t need the new functions. Version changes would mean something, but development would be more continuos. Maybe this is the way they are going?

I suppose this would make development more difficult for Graphisoft, though, specially when changes affect to core tools like stairs, walls, etc.