Archicad for Linux

[Anonymous]

Hi,

I think the linux market share will grow in 2005.
I usually work with OpenOffice 1.9, Mozzila, Gaim, Skype, Oracle 10g, GIMP 2.1, Blender, Dia, ArcGIS 9.0 software that run on windows and linux,
I would like to work with a version of Archicad for linux,

Now we only have Building Information Modeling (BIM) software in linux:
- ARCAD 90, from www.arcad.de - only in german i think
- BricsCad, (brings DWG to the LINUX community) beta version, from www.bricscad.com
and a old 2D Software - Microstation 95 for Linux
Does anybody know if there will be a linux version of archicad in 2005?

thanks,
Bernardino

[henrypootel]

hardly 'everyone' is asking for it. maybe 1% of their userbase, if that. which is probably the same percentage chance that they'll develop a linux version.

I think our best bet would be getting them to co-operate with bordeaux or codeweavers etc.. to get wine patched up to be able to run the windows version.

google did it with picasa and photoshop, and they both work great!

In other news, VBE works great in wine, and the BIM Server Manager appears to work fine too.

[henrypootel]

It is worth noting, however, that almost all of the programs you mention there are built on either the GTK or QT frameworks, so most of the work of porting to other OSes is done.

ArchiCAD is running on Cocoa in OSX and presumably .NET or similar in Windows, neither of which ported to another OS. Sure if windows was .NET then they could use Mono, but the maintenance & support headache for the framework alone would make it not worthwhile.

They're also all open-source/free, so the support and porting work is distributed over hundreds or thousands of end-users with a vested interest in getting it to work in their OS/Architecture of choice. A closed source project like ArchiCAD has to do all of that themselves.

Even then, which distribution/s would they support, and on what Hardware? Given the awful state of ATI's linux drivers, should they only support nVidia cards in Linux?

In windows, 2D graphics acceleration is done by DirectX, and on OSX it's done by Quartz/Core Image. What would the linux version use? Cairo?

Also, to use your example:

...imagine you own a big office. You employ 40 people who struggle to think of 6 characters for this month's password, and one person who compiles their home OS from source code...

So in this instance, you have 1 potential user of an ArchiCAD version of Linux. At the moment, they are using a license of ArchiCAD in OSX or Windows. If they were given the option to change to the Linux version and they did so, Graphisoft get no money for their development time, as that user is just using the same license that they already were.

I agree that a Linux version would be great, but I just don't see how it could ever be even close to viable for Graphisoft to do it without doing something horrendous like charging extra for Linux licenses or something.

[Karl Ottenstein]

henrypootel wrote:
I just don't see how it could ever be even close to viable for Graphisoft to do it without doing something horrendous like charging extra for Linux licenses or something.

I agree. Other than hobbyist tinkering, a very low equipment/software budget, or a desire not to give money to a big corporation, I don't see the point of Linux, really. None of those reasons, offer any profit incentive to Graphisoft to make the major investment required in producing a Linux edition.

[Karl Ottenstein]

0x0065,

Rather than refute all of your points - could we step back a minute and have you tell us something about yourself? The only posts you have ever made on these forums are to this thread. What is your job function? Do you use ArchiCAD today?

Tell us why we should continue to welcome you here?

Thanks,
Karl

[henrypootel]

0x0065 - what you are suggesting, at every point, is for Graphisoft to do even more work, just to be able to support a third platform on the hope that there are a significant amount of potential customers who are waiting for ArchiCAD on Linux?

Given that they make nothing from the platform change of a license (ie. from Windows to Linux), to make the port viable, all or most of the resources used to do the work would need to come from new customers after the work was done. If, as you say, the 'missing piece' is a decent CAD package on Linux, what are all of the potential users of this piece doing now, and why would they change from it?

"Big corporations" use Linux to shred their MASSIVE "equipment budgets", because it does what they want, how they want it.

Referring to your link, the full title of the site is "Top 500 Supercomputer Sites". Since what we are talking about here is software to run on a Desktop OS, the Desktop OS share is the one that is appropriate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

Depending on where you look, Linux on the desktop is between 0.6% and 2% market share. I would love it to be higher, and maybe it will get up to 3 or 4 percent someday, but it's not getting there in a hurry.

While we are on the subject though, I do think that a Linux version of the ArchiCAD BIM Server would be great, as this is much more likely to actually be of use.

It sounds like what your argument boils down to is:
Graphisoft should develop a Linux port of ArchiCAD, because to do so they would have to hire a bunch of new staff who are experienced with enterprise class software, which would improve ArchiCAD for everyone.

[Anonymous]

I am not sure what the opportunity cost is for Graphisoft's developers. I do know one thing: the ArchiPlus price structure, in tandem with new freeware that was developed in the Linux community has allowed me to stay in business in a very tough economy and keep my BIM software up to date ...

... As projects became fewer and farther between, I could no longer afford the industry standard raster and vector graphic editing, layouting & PDF editing (Adobe), spreadsheet, database & time-management (Microsoft), finance (Intuit) and other Windows-based software on my Mac platform due to the expense and the drag on my computing resources in the form of ram, computer crashes, etc. The Mac versions were half-baked.

A host of freeware came to the rescue: Gimp, Seashore, Inkscape, Scribus, Skim, OpenOffice and iBank. All were presumably developed by altruistic Linux or Mac developers, and they function in a more trouble-free way than their Windows-based counterparts. Now I'm one step away from moving my Mac firm to the Linux platform entirely ...

I'm starting to see freeware that handles CAD (e.g. DraftSight) that looks like it was also developed in the Linux environment. My concern is that if Graphisoft does not enter that market and compete using a fee structure similar to their ArchiPlus program, there will eventually be a competitive freeware app that could cut into Graphisoft's market share. I think Graphisoft would be smart to head that scenario off at the pass, assuming it would not divert attention from the development resources needed to keep ArchiCAD on its current trajectory of unmatched BIM performance.

I think those who have discovered the promise of ArchiCAD, MEP Modeler, Sketchup, and the BIM process overall – one based on cooperation, teamwork, coordination, and similar values – are the same people who see the promise of open-source software on an open-source OS. I think that community of like-minded people will grow just like the internet has (and Google, and Facebook), and Graphisoft should be in the game rather than on the sidelines.

[Laszlo Nagy]

Does any of those free programs you listed match ArchiCAD in complexity and amount of features?
I know OpenOffice but it had Sun and now Oracle behind it, both of which can clearly afford giving away software for free.

[Anonymous]

laszlonagy wrote:
Does any of those free programs you listed match ArchiCAD in complexity and amount of features?
I know OpenOffice but it had Sun and now Oracle behind it, both of which can clearly afford giving away software for free.

]

No, I don't picture a freeware competitor for ArchiCAD any time soon. (The big marketplace competitors can't compete as it is if performance and functionality are the only measure.)

I'm just saying that if Graphisoft could charge something like the the subscription rate ($600 annually) for ArchiCAD, plus incidental fees for other plug-ins like EcoDesigner and MEP Modeler, their development costs would still be covered, and they would likely position themselves to sell many more licenses than they do currently to people who are using Linux to lower their overall OS and software costs.

In my case, I might soon be able to afford a second license so I can use teamwork, since I haven't had to pay for graphics, office & administrative software. But it looks like, right now, I'm going to have to buy OSX lion instead, and the draftsperson who helps me is going to have to use DraftSight instead of ArchiCAD. If ArchiCAD were on Linux, that would not be an issue.

[stefan]

bswain1 wrote:
In my case, I might soon be able to afford a second license so I can use teamwork, since I haven't had to pay for graphics, office & administrative software. But it looks like, right now, I'm going to have to buy OSX lion instead, and the draftsperson who helps me is going to have to use DraftSight instead of ArchiCAD. If ArchiCAD were on Linux, that would not be an issue.

The cost of Lion ($30) is negligible compared the cost of a draftperson or even the cost of a computer. Strange comparison. Why would ArchiCAD for Linux save you anything?

Right now, there are almost no new CAD users to be gained. Maybe some people will migrate from other CAD software, but in most of the cases they will be using Windows or OSX and not be running Linux.

Frankly, I have stopped playing with Linux. I did try several distributions and liked Ubuntu and Suse quite a lot, but gave up on migrating to Linux. The driver support of graphic cards might be one of the main reasons, but also available software is the issue. I just feel much more productive on OSX, although I miss some aspects of Windows and some of the software (Rhino+Grasshopper, Vegas Movie Studio and Visual Studio to name a few).

[Anonymous]

The cost of Lion ($30) is negligible compared the cost of a draftperson or even the cost of a computer. Strange comparison. Why would ArchiCAD for Linux save you anything?

You're right about the negligible cost of keeping the OS updated, especially considering that computers only last a few years. The interns and CAD support I'm dealing with now will be helping me in a number of ways, however, including graphic editing, spreadsheet calcs, CAD, VIZ, and they will need to interface with my administrative software, like timesheet, etc.. I was picturing a scenario in which they use all the Linux-based software for those tasks, and stay on the same version as I using the same OS version for free. And they can use ArchiCAD with teamwork on my network license once I can afford the second license. Linux would only help in that they could use all the above software I do for free and update everything for free.

Right now, there are almost no new CAD users to be gained. Maybe some people will migrate from other CAD software, but in most of the cases they will be using Windows or OSX and not be running Linux.

Do you think there won't be more CAD users migrating to Linux as more freeware comes available? I don't know. Right now, I have a CAD production person who is trained in building technology, but she uses some software that doesn't save in any industry-standard CAD format. I told her to buy something at OfficeDepot or some other office supply store that does save in .DWG, .DXF or other. She wants to try the freeware on Linux and see how it works. That's just an example.

Frankly, I have stopped playing with Linux. I did try several distributions and liked Ubuntu and Suse quite a lot, but gave up on migrating to Linux. The driver support of graphic cards might be one of the main reasons, but also available software is the issue. I just feel much more productive on OSX, although I miss some aspects of Windows and some of the software (Rhino+Grasshopper, Vegas Movie Studio and Visual Studio to name a few).

I last used it a decade ago, but I was very productive at that time. I'm not trying to taut Linux as a panacea, I'm just seeing an awful lot of new freeware coming out of that community and wondering if Graphisoft should seek to operate in that community if it's going to grow.