From Floor Slabs to Floor Framing

[Anonymous]

When I start designing a house, I just put in thick floor slabs while the shape and size of the building are in flux. I typically run the floor slabs to the outside, so exterior walls start and end at the floor slabs. From the beginning I design with composite walls so I can later dimension to the cores of wood walls (builders love the framing layout plans).

Later as the design is developed I also create floor framing plans for the engineer and builder. At that point it would be better to show the individual floor joists and beams, sub floor, finish floor and ceiling below, especially in section drawings. What's the best way to make this transition?

Cathy Roha
Berkeley, CA (US wood-framing conventions)
AC 8.0 (waiting for 8.1), Win XP

[Jefferson]

Cathy,

I am tending to start that original floor slab with a composite representing the cavity the joists will occupy as empty fill, and the subfloor by something liken to plywood. Shape as you need in the early stages. When you're ready to define joists, ceilings, finished floors etc. that's a matter of how far to take the model, (which it seems is an open ended topic)..................dealer's choice......................or you are redy to detail your sections and plans with lines and fills, it really seems just a matter of how you want to work, model or draw.

[Richard Morrison]

Hi Cathy!

I've found it better to treat the floor slabs as just the structural portion (composite slab showing just joist depth and subfloor), otherwise it gets harder to edit and dimension if the sheetrock ceiling thickness extends over the tops of walls. Once you unlink the section from the model, it's easy to just copy a line if you feel the need to show ceiling and finish floor.

You can also save a little section editing, if you're showing all layers, by magic-wanding the floor slab around the exterior walls, then using the pet palette from a corner node to "shrink" the slab the dimension of the exterior finish and sheathing. Then, to make the building look right in 3D, add a thin composite wall (with just the exterior finish layer and sheathing) the height of the floor slab by magic-wanding it around the slab. Actually faster than it sounds.

BTW, I recently started using some library parts from Objects Online for framing members, the MasterBeam, MasterRafter, and MasterPost objects, which I like very much. A little pricey, but these in conjunction with the free TJM objects pretty well cover the bases. The automatic labeling is great, and I especially like the way point loads are carried down and shown on the floor below with the MasterPost object. HTH,

[gpowless]

What? Do you unlink your section? (as if resurrecting another long term debate isn't fun in a new format.... )

I model all the way to production drawings. I found that unlinking made if difficult to update drawings when changes were made.

(BTW I hang my toilet paper with the leading edge out.... )

[Anonymous]

Richard wrote:

BTW, I recently started using some library parts from Objects Online for framing members, the MasterBeam, MasterRafter, and MasterPost objects, which I like very much.

I sure would like to see a screen shot of a structural model done this way, is it possible?

Mark

[Richard Morrison]

Burginger wrote:

I sure would like to see a screen shot of a structural model done this way, is it possible?

Mark

Well, it wouldn't be much of a "model" because I only do floor joists, beams, rafters, and posts. I don't do studs/plates. But these objects actually look pretty much like standard AC beams, columns, and rafters, both in 2D and 3D, except they are more flexible and have automatic labels, if you wish.

Beams (joists) can be set to have metal hangers shown, and you can select, say, a double 2x10 and it will be labeled "(2) 2x10".

Rafters can have birdsmouths (and 2D hangers). My favorite feature, though is with the posts, which if you select as "show on floor below" can have different labels on that lower floor, such as "Pt. load", "2200#", "PHD5A" or whatever you want. Makes it easy to track down point loads.

[Anonymous]

Cathy wrote:
Later as the design is developed I also create floor framing plans for the engineer and builder. At that point it would be better to show the individual floor joists and beams, sub floor, finish floor and ceiling below, especially in section drawings. What's the best way to make this transition?

I haven't tried it right now, but I think the most easy solution is to draw your slab as roofs with no slope on a specific layer that will be easily hidden, then make you structure design with Roofmaker : it can easily place beams on a roof and draw all the piece together. With a little experience and some tweaks, It might be the fastest and easiest way.

...I still have to try

[Anonymous]

How do you handle the inability to get an accurate dimension from two objects intersecting without making a copy of your section or does unlinking take care of this for you?

Chris

[Link]

I haven't tried it right now, but I think the most easy solution is to draw your slab as roofs with no slope on a specific layer that will be easily hidden, then make you structure design with Roofmaker : it can easily place beams on a roof and draw all the piece together. With a little experience and some tweaks, It might be the fastest and easiest way.

I agree! This is a very under-utilized method. Draw a (temporary) flat roof in the same space as the flooring. Adjust the appropriate settings in the Roof Wizard and whooshka - Instant floor framing.

Sometimes the answers are right under our noses, but we think the name of the tool restricts our thinking

Cheers,
Link.

[Rick Thompson]

Link wrote:

I haven't tried it right now, but I think the most easy solution is to draw your slab as roofs with no slope on a specific layer that will be easily hidden, then make you structure design with Roofmaker : it can easily place beams on a roof and draw all the piece together. With a little experience and some tweaks, It might be the fastest and easiest way.

I agree! This is a very under-utilized method. Draw a (temporary) flat roof in the same space as the flooring. Adjust the appropriate settings in the Roof Wizard and whooshka - Instant floor framing.

Sometimes the answers are right under our noses, but we think the name of the tool restricts our thinking

Cheers,
Link.

Interesting idea, but after playing a few min with it I think I'll stick with what I have been doing, which is....

I keep a set of all framing sizes off to the side on my templates, on a hidden framing layer. These are from one AC library object I renamed (one of the beams I think). They are all keyed into the data base property objects by ID. If I have a 15'-6" span I grab the 2x10x16 and place one, adjust the lenght, and drag multiply. If a double is needed I drag a copy 1.5". This is actually very quick to do, with no additional roofs to place. I color code them, so for the PT joist I use green. This gives very accurate material listing too. For blocking I will go off to the side and place a few extra, same with headers. While the roofs will work, the material list will not be as nice since it will return values to the inch, not useful for take offs where you need how many 2x10x16's. However, I have a modified script that will make the Roof maker return whole numbers rounded up and to even numbers. If anyone wants it I will send it to you.