New attributes create with highest index number

[Barry Kelly]

I haven't checked this in version 13 but in 14 any new attribute created will now take on the next highest index number - regardless if there are other index numbers missing in the list of attributes.

Now this may not sound like a bad thing but as the person that looks after our template I used to create attributes and re-number them so that they would be 100 or so numbers higher than anything else in the template.

Previously if a user created a new attribute it would take on the next number in the gap that I left.
This ensured that at any time a user could update the attributes in their current job from the latest template and by selecting all attributes and overwriting two things would happen.

1 - all attributes would be set as they should be in the template.
2 - new attributes would be brought in but wouldn't overwrite anything new created by the user as the attribute numbers would be different.

For example.
Material attributes 1 through 50 exist.
User takes the template and starts a new job and creates a couple of new materials.
These will take on the numbers 51 & 52.
At some time in the future I update the template with 5 new materials.
I re-number these 201-205 so they won’t overwrite any new materials created by the users and save the template.
The user wants to update their job with these new materials and maybe some layers and line types too so they select ALL attributes and OVERWRITE.
This saves them from fishing around and trying to find what is new.
All is good so far as the new attributes don’t overwrite the new attributes created by the user.

Now the problem occurs.
In version 14 the user creates a new fill.
Instead of it becoming fill number 53 (which it did in previous versions) it now becomes fill number 206.
I need to add some new fills to the template.
As I have no idea what new attributes any of the 100 users in our company have created I now create fills 206 & 207.
Later the user updates and overwrites and messes up the last new material they created.


So now we are forced to manually compare attributes to select what is different and APPEND them to our existing jobs.
In old versions it was a minor pain for me to modify the attribute numbers higher and we could overwrite without the fear of actually overwriting user made attributes.

I hope this makes sense to someone out there.
How do others control updating attributes?
Do you physically compare the two files and append just what you need?

Barry.

[owen]

Can you do the inverse of what you have been doing in the past?

So create your template attributes and pad out a gap of 100 or so with a dummy attribute to allow for future expansion. You can create new attributes in this gap whilst new user-created (non-standard) attributes will be automatically added after this gap for easy identification.

BTW We actually used the same system you had described - I had not picked up this change yet, so thanks for the warning!

[Barry Kelly]

owen wrote:
Can you do the inverse of what you have been doing in the past?

I had thought the same thing.
I will try and create a new usefule attribute rather than one called someting like "Dummy attribute - don't use".

owen wrote:
BTW We actually used the same system you had described - I had not picked up this change yet, so thanks for the warning!

I wish it was written somewhere in the documentation but i didn't notice it.
I'm just glad I cought it early before we start using 14.
Part of our process when converting our old jobs to work in new versions is to update all the attributes.
At least now I can make adjustments rather than find it all go pear shaped later when it is too late.
I will allow a big enough gap so I can keep empty attributes after the original ones still just in case it changes back in the future.

Barry.

[Francois_MCD]

Hi Barry & Owen
I would like to learn how to change or re-index my project attributes but can not find anything specific like a tutorial or guide on how or where to start.
It's clear to me that it's not something to take on lightly, but I want to get guidance before I start to physically investigate & experiment.
I will appreciate any advice you can pass on.
Regards

[Barry Kelly]

Hello Francois,
The best way (only way?) to change you attribute index numbers is through the Attribute Manager.
Open the AM and you will see all you file attributes on the left hand side.
You can select one or many and then Append or Overwrite them to the right hand side of the dialogue box.

If you append they will change index numbers to the next highest in the list on the right.
So if there is nothing in the list and you append one attribute it will become index number "1".

If you overwrite then the index number will remain the same.

Once you have something on the right hand side you can select and duplicate it and every time you do the index number will be increased by one.
You can then delete all the lower numbered duplicate indexes.
Note the name of the attribute will also amend with a "(1)", "(2)", etc., after the name but this can be edited to take remove it (once you have deleted the original attribute you have copied because you can't have 2 attributes with exactly the same name).

As an example...
If I want something to have an index number of say 100 then I Overwrite the attribute that has the highest index number on the left side - say 57 - even though I don't want to use this attribute I just want to use its number - I will delete it later.
Then I append the attribute I want to change (say it is attribute 15) and it will become 58 on the right hand side.
Then I duplicate this until it becomes 99.
Delete all the other attributes from 57 to 98 so I have just the last one (99).
Then duplicate this one more time so it becomes 100 and delete 99.
This will rename the attribute so it has its original name.
Otherwise duplicate up to 100, delete all the others and then rename to get the original name back.
Then I can delete attribute 15 on the left hand side and APPLY the changes and then I can OVERWRITE the new attribute 100 back to the left.

NOTE if you delete attribute 15 and you have used in in your file (it will have a tick next to it) you will have elements with a "Missing" attribute and you will have to amend them.


So with a bit of effort you can transfer the attribute you want to the right hand side and then manipulate their attribute numbers to be what you want.
Then you can save them as an AAT file that can then be used to import them into any other file you open.

If you want to alter the attribute in your original file then you will need to delete those attribute you selected to copy and amend because they will have the wrong attribute numbers. Select them on the left, delete and then APPLY the changes.
Then you can OVERWRITE the amended attributes on the right back to the left.
Make sure you do OVERWRITE to keep the new attribute numbers because if you append they will all reset to the next numbers in the list - undoing all your hard work.

I am sure there are other posts here that might explain this better.
But if you have a bit of a play you should get the hang of it pretty quickly.

Barry.

[Francois_MCD]

Thank you so much Barry
It makes perfect sense and I did a quick test and it's actually easy with the AM. I'm glad it does not involve stuff like XML exports and edits outside of the normal ArchiCad interface.
I also appreciate your insights an tips.

[Lingwisyer]

So, I am guessing that this is still the only way to manage the index numbers...? I merged an IFC model and now I have an extra 150 materials, so now I am a bit lost on how to update my materials to my template changes...



Ling.

[Erwin Edel]

If you want to swap out those imported surfaces with something from your template you can use delete and replace from the surface attributes window.

[Lingwisyer]

Preferably, I would like to move them all to have an index of like 500+

[Barry Kelly]

Lingwisyer wrote:
Preferably, I would like to move them all to have an index of like 500+

Unfortunately you have to manipulate the index numbers manually.
In the Attribute manager copy the first attribute to the right hand side and then duplicate it until you get to the index number you want.
Delete all but the last duplicate (amend the name if you need to to get rid of the number in brackets at the end).
Then APPEND all the other attributes.

Being a template you should now be able to delete all the 'old' attributes from the left if they are not being used.
If they are being used then rename them with an 'X' or something similar at the end of the name.
This is so in the next step, the new attribute keeps the original name.

Now "Overwrite By Index Number" from the right to the left.
You now have the new attributes with the numbers you want.

If you have used attributes you didn't delete, then you have to to the 'Delete & Replace' routine for each.
In 22 I think it can be done in the Attribute Manager (I am not 100% sure).
In older versions you have to go into the attribute settings to delete & replace.

It can get a bit messy, but with a bit of practice / experimenting, you should get it.
Don't save your template until you are sure you have it correct.
Make sure you keep a backup of the original template first just in case it all goes pear shaped.

Barry.