Open Source Tools / Open BIM

[Anonymous]

This discussion gets very interesting. I sense a lot of frustration from ArchiCAD user community. I also share that frustration and it is less about terrible new ArchiCAD release and more about diminishing faith that ArchiCAD is the best industry solution for the next x years.
Just a thought that maybe the reality of feasible business model for professional software companies is shifting and Graphisoft (Nemetschek) are too big to be able to adapt.

In many other professional fields new software packages that are super affordable (or free of charge) challenge the giants. Film post-production industry is a good example. New release of Davinci Resolve is equally good (better?) than Adobe Premier and it is completely free. We have Blender in 3D modeling business that in many areas outshines 3D Studio Max and it is completely free!
I am sure there are other cases among different professional fields that pave the way to new business models that will push professional software development further on.

Maybe sooner or later we might expect a new kid on the block that will change the game. What do you think about that?

[Anonymous]

@Duncan @Moult

Interest discussion here. I think it deserves a dedicated thread.
Forgive my ignorance in terms of OpenBIM and Open Source SW development, but I would like to know what is the role of governments regarding these matters? Are there any initiative/regulation on an open format from, lets say, EU, UK or US?
I really think Open Source SW development is one of the great accomplishments of man kind. But unfortunately I tend to see it in a more reliable form within small scale projects. Making an analogy, is like comparing the building of a barn and a skyscraper. You can build a barn on a weekend with some friends and a barbecue, but try to build a skyscraper like this (?) I have the impression, taken by some awful experiences with sw like LibreOffice, that Open Source is more suitable for small projects, like smartphone apps, GDL objects, and things like that. The bigger the project, the bigger the mess. Does this makes sense?

[Jp1138]

Braza wrote:
@Duncan @Moult

The bigger the project, the bigger the mess. Does this makes sense?

It´s easier with smaller applications, of course, but there are examples of complex applications working fine, like Blender. Somewhat less successful are others like Gimp or Inkscape.

I don´t think Libreoffice is that bad, either, just another case of the big players, in this case Microsoft, not following standards.

[DGSketcher]

Braza wrote:
I really think Open Source SW development is one of the great accomplishments of man kind. But unfortunately I tend to see it in a more reliable form within small scale projects. Making an analogy, is like comparing the building of a barn and a skyscraper. You can build a barn on a weekend with some friends and a barbecue, but try to build a skyscraper like this (?)

With my limited understanding I think there lies the weak link in Open Source & small apps. Once finance plays any part in the design process there is an immediate shift to duty of care and accountability. Openly declared performance standards and blocks of code that will under stress testing deliver consistent results are to be applauded, but when things go wrong as designers you can be assured our lawyers and insurers will be looking to point fingers at the origin of the problem. If it came from a big brand there is a chance of recovery, if the problem is nested in a group of small apps where do you start. Sorry, this is an adversarial position, but it is the nature of trading and human nature to limit risk. This is fundamentally why we gravitate to the likes of Archicad, because it delivers some basic surety of performance and when it fails we know where to turn. Now if Graphisoft choose to build their product off the back of open source code that is their option and their risk, but I believe they are better resourced to carry out the required stress testing before delivery while we concentrate on our designs.

[Podolsky]

Actually that would be good idea: a BIM application must have ability to translate in real time changes in the model online. Like some sort of HTTP chat protocol using IFC entries.
Something that literally can look like that:
IP address, date, time, user name, IFC class parameters ...

This way it's possible to collect such online BIM streams into one project. Let say our engineer is working on Tekla, services engineer on Revit, architect on ArchiCAD and consultants are using BIMx and Solibry.
The collection of the streams and visualisation of the project can happen even online on cloud server, as global CDE. To make common data environment really common, it must works like Google today - everybody knows what is Google and there is no conversations about Google instability, unsatisfaction of translation or search results.

Support of additional Add-ons for different languages such GDL, AUTOLISP also would make the system universal. Then every package we are using today can become just another BIM-web-browser. Also such a system would have an ability of creation of BIMbots, robots that can generate events and translate online their IFC model.
To easy visualise all that, imagine team of computers playing chess online. They just telling to each other new position of figure and making comments about it.
It's also necessary to notice - chat form of the streams very good for commenting, when each comment is attached to an IFC object, located in project tree.
Just imagine the start of the project, that happens on the web-site and the web-site translates site position and geometry. Without any interpretations and discussions how to connect, what drawings to provide etc. to the stream is connecting site surveyor, who providing geometry of the existing building.
Having necessary entry as day and time in IFC element, we are getting alive 4D BIM - it can be time when inserted by user in the model, made any change, price, invoice, transaction proof, delivery and installation time on site. Then with application as calendar we can manage all items in time, setting installation time in construction project as we set today meetings in calendar.
Finally collecting all into news timeline similar to Facebook, with previews of new photos, point clouds, models and drawings, recordings of meetings, official reports from site, forums, etc. All communication like emails is happening on the same platform too. Just imagine you just scroll Facebook in the morning and really do serious work.
Such a protocol possible to translate into Google Map, or another Map services with different permission level, then real virtual site visits can happen.
That would be really cool.

[Anonymous]

I'd like to comment on the topics of quality and scale.

Opensource Software and Free/Libre Software need to be understood for what they are. They are a collective effort by a community of developers with a common interest. Sometimes they got a good start in life. LibreOffice started when StarOffice (proprietary) became OpenOffice (copy-left Free Software). Blender had a great start when it after nine yrs of development became opensource (interesting story worth reading) on the initiative of the / a key developer who still plays a key role.

But still in both cases, just take a moment to guess how many hours of professional programming has gone into these projects compared to similar software from Microsoft and Adobe or Autodesk.

Development follows the needs of the users. As larger organizations have been more involved in development the scalability and robustness of the projects increases. For LibreOffice this has been party thanks to German State governments who have seen the need to invest in software that protects data privacy for them and their citizens. For Blender large film productions have found it useful and got involved in improving it.

So what's missing in this story for BIM & AEC? We're almost building this from scratch and we have no (well maybe one, LendLease) large backer. But it's just a matter of time. Every time someone explains why opensource and free/libre software is a great way to develop software, that changes people idea of what is possible.

I have to mention here that software licenses & patents are a *huge* part of the problem here. In buildings in the real world (or cars, boats, chairs ...) anyone can look at how things are done and learn from them. In software you can't. Patent lawyers have made sure that if one company finds a great way of writing software to solve a problem - no-one else will ever see it. The power of copy-left free software is that it says "I'll share with you, now you share with us."

By the way, are there open source extensions to ArchiCAD?

[Podolsky]

No. There is no open source extensions. Standard GDL library is open. Some users can open their GDL scripts. I didn't see anything in connection with open source software: like support of one of OS renderers (that actually could be a good idea) or support of Blender file format (but this is not really needed).
It's also worth notice, that third part development on ArchiCAD is not active. Add-ons technology can seriously change interface and possibilities in ArchiCAD, but current amount of Add-ons is not impressive. Maybe more experienced programmers don't want to take part because of complicity of Add-ons or just because in another platforms it looks more promising.

For me it's really strange - if hungry person is sitting in front of piece of cake where is written - take it, it's for you - he is not doing that. I can compare this situation to how Graphisoft never tried in make any export plug-ins to OS renderers like LuxRender, when in ArchiCAD there nothing similar yet to MLT.

[Anonymous]

Podolsky wrote:
No. There is no open source extensions. Standard GDL library is open. Some users can open their GDL scripts. ...

"open" in what way? Could someone make a FreeCAD Workbench that exported GDL scripts to define ArchiCAD objects?

[Podolsky]

Duncan wrote:

Podolsky wrote:
No. There is no open source extensions. Standard GDL library is open. Some users can open their GDL scripts. ...

"open" in what way? Could someone make a FreeCAD Workbench that exported GDL scripts to define ArchiCAD objects?

GDL scripts have built-in licences: Public Domain Dedication 1.0, Attribution-NoDerivs 3.0, Attribution 3.0, Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0, Attribution-NoDerivatives 4.0 or commercial. Every user can choose type of license when he starts his script. Script also can be password protected - this way hidden to another users.

As I know - there is no GDL use in another programs. This is an original language in ArchiCAD, created by Graphisoft. Was attempts to make GDL international standard for CAD libraries - was created plug-ins for web and AutoCAD about 20 years ago, but somehow this project was unsuccessful. Sketchup warehouse and Revit families took this place these days.

I personally think that GDL is great. Very comfortable and simply language, but let to build a lot of useful stuff. Actually almost half of ArchiCAD functionality is built on GDL. Unfortunately GDL does not live outside of ArchiCAD - does not exist any packages working with GDL. The last try to make GDL more affordable for users was by introducing PARAM-O, but this program is working inside of ArchiCAD too.

I guess the main reason why GDL is not universal - because it has got a lot global variables and program requests reflecting special ArchiCAD architecture. Of course all that manageable - as soon as there is a will to make GDL open for use in another CADs, but today nobody interesting. For example nobody is working today on new GDL plug-ins for Revit, Sketchup or for Web browsers.

I think to use GDL-like language in BlenderBIM would be really beneficial for creating highly parametric models.

[Ahmed_K]

Open BIM would be easier with grashopper, whatch this video of data and geometry exchange between archicad and revit, using grashopper,
this plugin is still in beta stage, but looks promessing

https://speckle.systems/features/

[Podolsky]

bouhmidage wrote:
Open BIM would be easier with grashopper, whatch this video of data and geometry exchange between archicad and revit, using grashopper,
this plugin is still in beta stage, but looks promessing

The only problem that Rhino and Grasshopper are commercial product. There is Grasshopper copy called Sverchok on Blender currently under development.