Railing in ArchiCAD 22 Elevation Display Issues

[svpribyl]

I have an issue trying to change the pen colors of railing elements in elevation and section views.

Changing the 3d parameters of railing elements has no effect. The railing is from a favorite imported from Graphisoft's default file. I have no graphic overrides. I worked out the symbol view in plan, but not elevation.

A similar railing in the Graphisoft default file seems to work as expected: changing a pen color for element display in 3d changes the pen color in elevation. So it seems like there's a display parameter somewhere that's overriding my ability to change the pen colors. Any help would be appreciated.

[R Muller]

Barry and Ling-

Thank you so much for your clarifications. I probably should avoid using Edit mode unless what I am changing relates only to one segment. I will go back and watch the training videos again, as I obviously missed this the first time through.

I have more railing questions, but will post under a new topic.

[ryejuan]

Hi Guys,

I'm also having some issues with the handrail in ArchiCAD on the part where I'm doing renovation filters even though I have set the main handrail into "exisiting" other parts of the railing shows as "new" then end up I have also tried modifying each part to be represented as "existing" but it still reverts back to "new" or some of the parts not being represented correctly. I'm not sure if I'm missing something.

Any tips or inputs greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

[Andreas _kerlund]

Hi!

I have the same problem but in Archicad 23. I have tried everything I can think of. Drawn a new raiing, copied the old one, changed every pen, even those wich have nothing to do with the 3D appearance. No matter what I do the railing seems to be hard wired to pen 1. I changed the color of that pen in the penset to check. I have also tried graphic overrides. I have done no edit-mode editing at all. Frustrated...

[Anonymous]

Hi Andreas,

Ok. Just to check: Did you check all Barry's and Ling's posts in this topic?
Hope that helps.

[Laszlo Nagy]

Let me summarize all the findings of this thread for future reference:

So, under normal circumstances, the sub-elements or components of Railings (such as Handrail, Post, Balusters, etc.) can be displayed with their own Pen in 3D and Sections/Elevations. It is usually set by the "Contour Pen" setting in the "3D Representation" panel of the component GDL Object's settings.

So what may cause the View Pens of Railings to change in Sections/Elevations from their Pen set in the Settings Dialog (1., 2., and 3. below apply to other element types, 4. applies only to Railings):

1. If you go to the "Elevation Settings" Dialog, and in the "Model Display" panel, check the "Uniform Pen for Uncut Elements" checkbox, all view lines of the Railing that are not cut by the Section/Elevation will be overridden with the specified Pen. Please note that all uncut lines of all other elements will also be overridden so the change is quite visible:


2. You might have a Graphic Override active that overrides the Line Pen of the Railing. This will again affect the whole of the Railing.


3. Renovation Filters can also override the Pen of the whole Railing element. In the below example, the Railing is set to the "New" Renovation Status. and the "00 Show All Elements" Renovation Filter specifies New Elements to be overridden by a red Pen.
It is worth noting that in case an element is overridden by both Graphic Overrides and Renovation Filters, Graphic Overrides will be stronger.


4. If you go to the "Model View Options" Dialog, and in the "Railing Options" panel, set the "Railing 3D and Section/Elevation" field to "Simplified", the whole Railing again will be overridden. In this case, you may also see some parts of the Railing not generated due to the simplification of its geometry.


If all the above do not solve this issue, then it is really possible that the Railing geometry is corrupted somehow. In that case, you can try to delete the Railing and redo it.
If even redoing the Railing does not solve the problem, you may try to apply another Favorite and redo the Railing, since it may be the Favorites data that was corrupted, and applying another Favorite might fix this corruption.
If even that does not solve it, you may try to use the "Open and Repair" option when opening the file, it may fix that.
If even that does not fix it, then it may be file corruption. In that case, I would report this to your local support.

[Laszlo Nagy]

I have played a bit more with this topic to see in what order the overrides are applied. So in order of strength, they are:

In the case of Pens:
1. MVO Settings (strongest)
2. Graphic Override
3. Renovation Filter
4. Elevation Settings

In the case of Surfaces:
1. Renovation Filter (strongest)
2. Elevation Settings ("Fill Uncut Surfaces with" field - "Uniform Pen Color" option)
3. Graphic Override
4. MVO Settings (strongest)

I am seeing inconsistencies in the case of Surfaces, sometimes MVO settings are applied to Surfaces (where they should not be). I think it happens when all 4 types of overrides are applied, and if I turn off the other three overrides, the MVO Surface override will start to be applied, which may be a bug. Plus, the order in which these overrides are applied is not the same in the case of Pens and Surfaces, which I think is inconsistent, probably also a bug.
So I will send these issues to Graphisoft.

[Minh Nguyen]

HI Laci,

Thank you for spending the time investigating this issue! This is a very intriguing one!

I can reproduce the same issue on AC23. It looks like this is a design issue to me, or this could also be a bug!? I have forwarded the case to the development team. Once I have the answer I will let you know!

Thank you once again, and have a great day!

Best regards,
Minh

[Laszlo Nagy]

Hi Minh,

Thanks. I think there are 2 reasons this is a bug:
1. The order is not the same in all cases for Pens and Surfaces.
2. MVO is sometimes applied for Surfaces, sometimes it is not.

So, if it is a design decision, there must be a pretty good explanation of why it is working this way.

[Minh Nguyen]

Got it! I shared your opinion with the developers already. Hopefully we'll have an answer soon!

Cheers,
Minh

[Minh Nguyen]

Hi Laci,

After some discussions with the developers, I found out a few things:

For displaying surface in Elevation, we have Surface color and Fill color. And here is where things get complicated.



GO rules and Renovation override include both Surface override and Fill override, whereas Elevation settings only include Fill's color override (there's also an option for Own Surface color), and MVO only includes Surface override.

According to the developers, the order of the override should be:

1. GO (strongest)
2. Renovation
3. Elevation Settings
4. MVO (weakest)

After some tests, I realized that: Fill color override is always stronger than Surface override. For example, if you deactivate Fill color override in GO rules, Renovation's Fill color override will kick in.

If we disable all Fill color override (that also include Elevation settings), the order of override for surface is:
1. GO (strongest)
2. Renovation
3. MVO (weakest)

According to this, the Pen override is faulty. It could be an implementation error in the Stair/Railing Schematic View. I have entered a defect entry for this into the system. Hopefully it will be addressed soon, to avoid further confusion!

If there is anything unclear, feel free to let me know!

Regarding the issue when MVO is sometimes applied for Surfaces, sometimes it is not, unfortunately, we could not reproduce the issue. I try to follow your suggestion, by deactivating each combination one by one, with both AC23 and AC22, unfortunately I was unable to reproduce it. Is there an exact method to reproduce this?

Thank you very much!

Best regards,
Minh