!Restored: AC12+ Question

[Anonymous]

Hello,
Does anyone think GS might include/be working towards incorporating add-ons such as MaxonForm or Objective into future releases?
I have been using AC for about 4 years now and am relatively happy with the software, I do however wish it was easier to model new objects/elements without requiring any add-ons.
Thanks.

[Bricklyne Clarence]

rwallis wrote:
....Personally I think native MEP software would be too hard for GS to achieve convincingly.

.....unfortunately that's not true. They did achieve something of a native and effective MEP module for ArchiCAD; only it ended up being bundled into Constructor instead (formerly Graphisoft Constructor and now VICO Constructor). When Vico broke off from Graphisoft to independently develop Constructor (running on an ArchiCAD engine one version behind), they took all the cool would-be/could-have-been ArchiCAD toys with them; such as the aforementioned MEP module, a change or revision monitor and manager, an effective construction simulation and scheduling tool, and an estimator tool that could easily be spun off into a quantity take-off tool for architects.

It seemed pretty ridiculous to me. It always seems as if Graphisoft develop, or rather can develop all these amazing enhancements to ArchiCAD in addition to improving the core, but eventually decide against it (rather than being incapable due to limited development resources) because they deem their clients and customers not adept enough or capable enough to use those tools effectively or at all. So they just dumb it down for us.

....at least that's what it seems to me when I see what they develop(ed) or can develop for a Suite such as Constructor and then compare that with what we're offered in ArchiCAD.

In North America with the full-court press that Autodesk is putting on marketing Revit, ArchiCAD 12 will IMO be a definitive make-or-break version for Graphisoft!

[Thomas Holm]

stefan wrote:
The history of Nemetschek acquisitions has shown that they keep the different products alive, next to each other...

Well as long as the revenue keeps flowing, I guess that's OK. But Autodesk doesn't sit still. To compete with them, you can't either. You need to concentrate development resources to make your products better. And you can't do that if your own products compete for the same buyers.

If I were them, I'd try to - first - segment the markets, so that each product has a 'home' market. Vectorworks is already aimed at a somewhat less 'pro' segment, so its future is secure I think. Allplan and Archicad compete more or less head to head, so that isn't as easy. Archicad has a larger market share and is mainly cross-platform, but Allplan is Nemetschek's home. I have a hard time guessing what they'll do. One guess is aiming Archicad solely at architects, while Allplan is more for construction, MEP and other engineers. Seems like it's stronger there today. And that would also fit with selling out Vico.

Then, I'd try to identify key areas where the programs could be integrated to simplify development - a common 3D engine for example would be important. That would also be the foundation for better integration for users. If you segment the market, you need an obvious migration path between them. That also gives better communication. But this is long-term work. Archicad 12 isn't very significant. It was largely planned before Nemetschek. What's important is what's coming next year or so.

The most important thing while this is going on is of course to try to keep customer's confidence. Different bundling options could help. But openness is the key I think. If I'm insecure about the future, when I'm choosing between different options to migrate my architect's office from flatcad to BIM, would I choose Revit, which may be expensive and lacking in some areas but I know has Autodesk's full commitment and resources, or would I choose Archicad, which is more full-featured, polished and tried-and-true but where the future is starting to feel uncertain and the development resources are questioned?

(I'm a Mac addict, so don't ask me, I'll stubbornly ride the same horse into the sunset, but there are others 😉

[Djordje]

Bricklyne wrote:
It seemed pretty ridiculous to me. It always seems as if Graphisoft develop, or rather can develop all these amazing enhancements to ArchiCAD in addition to improving the core, but eventually decide against it (rather than being incapable due to limited development resources) because they deem their clients and customers not adept enough or capable enough to use those tools effectively or at all. So they just dumb it down for us.

Why do you think they feel it should be dumbed down? Who gives them the feedback that the flock is dumb and cannot swallow proper packages? Where does the feedback come from? Why are the last three versions more drafting oriented than ever before?

Well ... look at the Forum. 90% of the questions are the ones that should have been clear after 5 minutes of training. Everybody speaks about drawing. Sections are unlinked and linework abounds. Simple stuff is accepted with awe. Wow, you can do that! DUH! A power user is the one who knows what GDL means.

So, maybe the horrible truth is much worse that any of us wants to admit, and that the average user - US or otherwise - IS really not getting it, and still thinks that the ultimate achievement is a pretty drawing, and that drawing is what the profession does.

Rant over ... a bad day today.

[Anonymous]

Not a bad day Djordje - just stating it as it is.

Most users don't use the program as it should be used. A large part of the reason is is the lack of training and/or personal effort to understand the program and how it is supposed to work. Instead users insist on trying to adapt how it works to their existing preconceived ideas and paradigms.

I'm not sure how you overcome that.

PS: This is not a problem unique to Archicad. It applies to most AEC programs

[Anonymous]

Dear Bricklyne, I had heard about the MEP package, and the screenshot looks interesting. However I should have been clearer.

From my (limited) understanding of (say, for example) Revit Structural and MEP packages, these not only allow these elements to be created, but they contain relevant analysis and design parts for (the) relevant consultant.
Therefore what I wanted to convey was that for GS to spend the time writing software that provides the "relevant analysis and design" toolset would be a big ask. [I gather Allplan may address this with other 'Modules'].

[Anonymous]

I am 90% sure that the AC 12 will have the ability to do what Maxonform does. Reason I say this is:

1) They have stopped selling Maxonform. Or in the process of removing it.
2) The Graphisoft lady told me that AC 12 will be able to do all this freeform modelling. And thus the reson for phasing out Maxonform

So lets hope so.

[Dennis Lee]

That sounds awesome ! ... but I thought the reason they stopped maxonform is because they want you to use the latest C4D instead.

Let's hope I'm wrong.

[Thomas Holm]

a.bowden wrote:
Graphisoft lady

[Bricklyne Clarence]

Thomas wrote:

a.bowden wrote:
Graphisoft lady

I'm just as curious as to whom this "Graphisoft lady" is as well. Reseller? GS suit? Beta tester?

a.bowden wrote:
2) The Graphisoft lady told me that AC 12 will be able to do all this freeform modelling. And thus the reson for phasing out Maxonform

Man, if that is true, I'll never say a bad thing about GS again.........or at least for 2 more versions. However, given their history I'm more liable to believe the alternate reason given for Maxonform's phasing out,.....i.e that they want people to use the latest version of C4D instead of wasting resources on a niche product, - especially considering the fact that this option would work for them and Nemetschek on a broader marketing and software development strategy for specializing products and clients rather than spreading (and duplicating) functions thin across different applications.

And by Freeform modeling, I would personally consider it having to have both NURBS-modeling and possibly Polygonal or Subdivision modeling capabilities. Sans an entire overhaul, I just don't see the present ArchiCAD modeling engine being able to handle the amount of geometry that's usually generated by these kinds of techniques.

So I'll believe it when I see it.

.....but if it's true, and if they also go ahead and upgrade the rendering engine to boot; this could go a long way in putting ArchiCAD back into the conversation especially given what Revit 2009 will have (Swept blend tool and MentalRay rendering).

[Dwight]

Photo of Graphisoft Lady attached