Upgrading to ArchiCAD V13

[Anonymous]

Well my support subscription invoice has just arrived so with the current state of the economy I had to check, Is the upgrade to version 13 worth me having.

I checked with my reseller who said the only thing he can tell me is that ArchiCAD 13 will have better team work. That would be fine if I was a large practice, but I am not. So for now ArchiCAD 12 will do just fine and I can save the money.

Unless there is a significant improvement in the tools why bother?

[Karl Frost]

Maybe it is something about the name, but I totally agree with Karl Barker. The issue of AC on the Mac lagging behind the PC has been carrying on for too long now, and we have repeatedly commented/complained to GS in NZ that it is unfair for us to pay the same for an "inferior" product. Yes plse to a commitment from GS that they are going to do something about this AND a date for them to deliver.

[owen]

Disclaimer: The 64Bit+Mac fiasco has my temper, well a little high. Please excuse the f-bomb dropped below

Bricklyne wrote:
You know you're in for kind of a sorry update when the 'taglines' they are using on the product page, (and lifted from right out of these very talkback, forums, no less - sorry Owen) to promote the new release, read like:

........ wrote:
“I think this [64-bit] + TW2 would make AC13 a fantastic upgrade, regardless of any other new features.”

Without going back to dig up that post i'm pretty sure i was saying that as a 'big office/project' user ... and if they had bothered to notice one running OS X

If i were a small, Mac-based office then AC13 really isn't worth it IMO ... and i would really have to think about recommending it to anyone who would not use TW. Several of our clients have already paid their subscriptions and so get the upgrade, but i imagine some people might not be too happy about what they are getting for their money.

something along the lines of ..

We (OS X users) have paid the same amount as Windows users, yet we get an inferior product. Where the f*** is the OS X 64Bit version, or do you plan on giving us a refund???

I really do not give a damn about GS dev resourcing issues .. no 64Bit Mac version is just pathetic. This has been coming for years on both platforms. Other Mac developers have managed to get on the boat, so what the f*** have you been doing?

[Bricklyne Clarence]

owen wrote:
Disclaimer: The 64Bit+Mac fiasco has my temper, well a little high. Please excuse the f-bomb dropped below

Bricklyne wrote:
You know you're in for kind of a sorry update when the 'taglines' they are using on the product page, (and lifted from right out of these very talkback, forums, no less - sorry Owen) to promote the new release, read like:

........ wrote:
“I think this [64-bit] + TW2 would make AC13 a fantastic upgrade, regardless of any other new features.”

Without going back to dig up that post i'm pretty sure i was saying that as a 'big office/project' user ... and if they had bothered to notice one running OS X

................

something along the lines of ..

We (OS X users) have paid the same amount as Windows users, yet we get an inferior product. Where the f*** is the OS X 64Bit version, or do you plan on giving us a refund???

I really do not give a <b>[censored]</b> about GS dev resourcing issues .. no 64Bit Mac version is just pathetic. This has been coming for years on both platforms. Other Mac developers have managed to get on the boat, so what the f*** have you been doing?

.........when I had typed up that previous post, at the time I hadn't realized that Mac users had gotten shafted again, with the lack of 64-Bit support. Since then, several posts have illuminated the glaring horror. Talk about taking this whole schtick of releasing new versions iwth half-baked new features a little too far. What next? Are we going to find out that TW2 only works well at certain times of the day with a maximum number of users - but will be corrected in AC14?

After their fiasco with no VBE, or Sketchup-Addon support for MAC users over the last couple of versions, this seems to be stretching it a bit much on GS's part - especially with Apple's release of Snow Leopard. I mean it's not exactly like GS didn't see this coming.


In light of that I should also amend the end of my previous post which was:

...... wrote:
.....I feel for you small subscription users - I really do.

to read:-

"I feel for you small subscription users - I really do.
BUT, I really, really, reeaaallly feel for you small MAC-based subscription users"

Mac Users should really really demand some kind of a discount or refund (if you're subscription-based) for this. It's quite unheard of.

Of course there are going to be those who will claim that this is a great update. And of course they will likely either be

a) Beta-Testers, kinda contractually obligated to claim its a great release even when it may not seem so to the neutral observer.

Or

b) New users - who have not been sitting on major annoying basic program wishes in the Wishlist section for the last umpteen versions since the nineties.
Or

c)NOT Mac users.....from small firms.

But ultimately they are allowed their opinion, as I hope the rest of us are ours.

Some have claimed that there are yet other features to be released which were not revealed in that press release, but I highly doubt it since, coming late as they are with this update, GS would want to put all their major guns upfront with the best feature upgrades available; - and they did just that.

[Rob]

In regards to 64bit mac version.... well there is more than just recompiling the code to 64 bit.
I would like to remind all that Apple's sudden decision to axe Carbon one year ago was a bit shocker for all developers (even companies like Adobe had to postpone its suite). GS (and in fact most of developers) were using Carbon for back-compatibility reasons mainly. The sheer volume of system calls is really hard to address in one go. I know something about programming at the very fundamental level of Assembler (old days with Macs based on famous 68xxx motorolla CPUs) so I am not surprised. Can you imagine this on Win(?) if let’s say MS changed system libraries in relatively short time span like this.... quality of applications running on Win would go from an inferior to revolting (however it is teetering on that edge already... just got carried away though)

Anyway combining this with the magnitude of TW2 technology would be the perfect recipe for a disaster especially considering that Snow Leopard just came out (surely with hidden issues too).

I must admit I am actually glad to see that GS has postponed 64bit mac. I would rather wait for a properly consolidated code and BTW how many of you use more than 4GB memory for one project... I mean honestly.

[Karl Frost]

Rob, you are correct that Apple stymied the 64-bit issue and as you say it probably won't make much difference 90% (or even 99%) of the time. But it is another example of Mac users missing out on the full functionality of AC.

[Rob]

Karl,

look I would really love to have all bells and whistles on mac too... but reality is that OSX leaps forward with a tremendous speed so it is hard to keep up I suppose...

Anyway I know that mac 64bit was debated at GS as they knew what is going to happen... but they do not make decisions based on whims as you can imagine. For example Snow Leopard brings a nice set of technologies that do not exist on Win. Well since AC is on two platforms what are you going to do? Would you ignore Win or would you ignore SnowLeopard? This is something they have to explore and reconsider... I think that is fair enough at least for me.

[Rick Thompson]

Bricklyne wrote:
a) Beta-Testers, kinda contractually obligated to claim its a great release even when it may not seem so to the neutral observer.

No, not accurate. You might find that beta testers might have a more realistic perception of the real world issues involved, which can effect some comments.. (due to hearing some GS comments). And, it is a great release.. IMHO, for a large majority of users, I am not one of them (ie: one person office, based on housing, which is dead right now). I never bit the subscription hook though, so I don't have that issue, which is understandable to me.

Sometimes assumptions can be misleading

[Karl Ottenstein]

Rick wrote:

Bricklyne wrote:
a) Beta-Testers, kinda contractually obligated to claim its a great release even when it may not seem so to the neutral observer.

No, not accurate. You might find that beta testers might have a more realistic perception of the real world issues involved, which can effect some comments.. (due to hearing some GS comments).

Ditto. Totally false, Clarence. The only contractual obligation of beta testers, and others who saw 13 early because of a non-disclosure, is to keep all information in confidence until Graphisoft announces the product. At that point, they / we can talk freely about anything covered in the announcement, but nothing further. Once the product ships, we can talk about any aspect of it, in any negative or positive way as we perceive it.

Beta testers have already posted negative comments in the various threads here.

I can see resellers only saying glowing things, of course, but who believes them anyway? 😉

Karl

[Aaron Bourgoin]

Karl wrote:

I can see resellers only saying glowing things, of course, but who believes them anyway? 😉

not me.

[Anonymous]

I have to say my sympathies are out there with a lot of the Mac Users, But as a former Mac User who has had to make the leap to AC on PC (windows) I pine for the speed & power of a Mac.

I understand that as Users on a Mac we have been little brother in comparison to the Microsoft / windows juggernaut. But if we are going to sit there & pine about what we don't have we will miss what we do. It is upto each & everyone of us to make the most of what we have, improving a little at a time encouraging others to join our numbers & only when we are a significant number can we expect to be treated the same.

Unlike in Politics where the Minority making a big noise gets the breaks in this game it is the Majority voting with there wallets that set the agenda.

This is no disrespect to anyone but just a statement of fact of someone who has spent the last 26 Years mixing it with the Major players in this CAD Industry.

I for one am looking forward to TW2 as a user of teamwork in my previous office & spending sometime in an enviroment where it doesn't have the same importance. I look forward to adapting all so called improvements (Good or Bad) & making Archicad work harder & smarter for me & my Office Colleagues.

So as I say to my Kids don't worry about what you don't have spend more time & effort in making what you do have work at its optimum for you.