What do you think about the last presentation of Graphisoft?

[hpenbeoglu]

Archicad 24 event was good but probably focused on new users, so it was boring or let's say not exciting enough for advanced users like me. I was expecting more about the product.

[list=]

Logo change can be told with a video explaining the history of it and why did you select this one?

• Presenters could show some projects on dark Mac screen.

• Showing, walking in the campus (GS Park) would be perfect (like Apple) because standing still presenter is always not attractive.

What else did you think while watching?

[JSN]

Bricklyne wrote:
It's why I predict this new Param-O node-based GDL object making tool with ArchiCAD 24 will likely fail or at best, go the way of BIMComponents (remember that? Remember how it was supposed to be the "Google SKetchup Warehouse" for ArchiCAD smart library objects?) and not really amount to much.
Because they're trying to replicate the process (and success) of the development of Grasshopper over at McNeel with Rhino - only they're taking shortcuts and doing away with what really made and makes Grasshopper such a success for McNeel.

Exactly. It looks a bit like a cheap copy, but it feels totally different. It is actually just a set of GDL building blocks and therefore it already is covered in dust as you have to think like you are writing GDL.

Example: In Grasshopper you can easily deconstruct elements and work with lists and datatrees even on a n object based level so when I want to create a table I can really place legs on each corner points of a table derived by other elements like here the tabletop. In Param-O you do not have this possibilities, as you manually have to define the corner points where to place the legs. This is just a simple example but it shows really good the limitations of such short-cut approaches. Sure maybe it gets better by time but I do not see much hope either as there is such a hude GDL legacy.

In my eyes such a node based editor for general commands based on the pyhton/json api to come up with building blocks for real automation, rather than having to code them all, would have so much more potential.

But again, this should all be achieved in one core tool so that it really makes sense in terms of usability and integral development else with not real focus the revolution devours all its children.


When it comes to the roadmap story I really agree with you guys that there should be a site where you can easily grasp those things in a short time. Currently it would require quite some time to collect all those polls and get an idea about what's going on. The twinmotion example is actually a quite a thing compared to here.

+++A bit offtopic but when I comes to forum improvements I actually have a big wish: I really want that I can just insert pictures and screenshots here directly from the clipboard. It would speed up posting things so much. This is for example nicely done in the Solibri Society Forum, there it works like a charm and it is also easier to understand what other folks are posting as they use it widely more often! +++

[Laszlo Nagy]

You guys are pretty quick to pass final judgment on a Technology Preview (Param-O).

[Laszlo Nagy]

JSN wrote:
+++A bit offtopic but when I comes to forum improvements I actually have a big wish: I really want that I can just insert pictures and screenshots here directly from the clipboard. It would speed up posting things so much. This is for example nicely done in the Solibri Society Forum, there it works like a charm and it is also easier to understand what other folks are posting as they use it widely more often! +++

You can drag-and-drop one or multiple files onto the text box when creating a new post, and the files will be attached to the post.
My guess is that the reason you cannot paste the contents of the clipboard is that it is not a file on your drive so the forum software cannot handle it as such (I know that email programs can do this, looks like the phpbb forum software cannot). But this wish should be addressed to the developers of phpbb, not GRAPHISOFT.

[jl_lt]

Braza wrote:

Bricklyne wrote:
The idea of a Roadmap is nice and all, and under normal circumstances even if they were to do it, they would still be way behind the curve as most Software Development shops by default have open published "RoadMaps" or "Trello" boards as a standard part of their development process.

Better late than never.

jl_lt wrote:
A roadmad is trully asking for too much, ...

I don't think so. The AEC Software Industry (and not only) is facing a revolution. IMO. The way big companies, like Autodesk/Bentley, have managed user expectation is no longer acceptable. I just hope that GS doesn't fall in the same mistakes. The VW example is a good sign that this approach can be replicated to other Nemetschek brands. I am optimistic on this. After all we already see a consistent GS feedback here.

I agree the roadmap would be great, what i mean is, if we always want to go from 0 to 100mph, we might end up in the starting point going anywhere. Why not start with something small and grow from there? there also seem to be a lot of answers from GS guys of lately which is very good news i think

[jl_lt]

JSN wrote:

Bricklyne wrote:
It's why I predict this new Param-O node-based GDL object making tool with ArchiCAD 24 will likely fail or at best, go the way of BIMComponents (remember that? Remember how it was supposed to be the "Google SKetchup Warehouse" for ArchiCAD smart library objects?) and not really amount to much.
Because they're trying to replicate the process (and success) of the development of Grasshopper over at McNeel with Rhino - only they're taking shortcuts and doing away with what really made and makes Grasshopper such a success for McNeel.

Exactly. It looks a bit like a cheap copy, but it feels totally different. It is actually just a set of GDL building blocks and therefore it already is covered in dust as you have to think like you are writing GDL.

Example: In Grasshopper you can easily deconstruct elements and work with lists and datatrees even on a n object based level so when I want to create a table I can really place legs on each corner points of a table derived by other elements like here the tabletop. In Param-O you do not have this possibilities, as you manually have to define the corner points where to place the legs. This is just a simple example but it shows really good the limitations of such short-cut approaches. Sure maybe it gets better by time but I do not see much hope either as there is such a hude GDL legacy.

In my eyes such a node based editor for general commands based on the pyhton/json api to come up with building blocks for real automation, rather than having to code them all, would have so much more potential.

But again, this should all be achieved in one core tool so that it really makes sense in terms of usability and integral development else with not real focus the revolution devours all its children.


When it comes to the roadmap story I really agree with you guys that there should be a site where you can easily grasp those things in a short time. Currently it would require quite some time to collect all those polls and get an idea about what's going on. The twinmotion example is actually a quite a thing compared to here.

+++A bit offtopic but when I comes to forum improvements I actually have a big wish: I really want that I can just insert pictures and screenshots here directly from the clipboard. It would speed up posting things so much. This is for example nicely done in the Solibri Society Forum, there it works like a charm and it is also easier to understand what other folks are posting as they use it widely more often! +++

I still dont get why so much complication for a parametric object. If it was for a completely parametric building, it would be great; but all this for the ability to parametrically modify a table? am i missing something? Anyway, great to see they listened to the people and implemented this. I really hope it evolves in the opposite direction Mr. Bryckline predicts (not without reason).

[Bricklyne Clarence]

LaszloNagy wrote:
You guys are pretty quick to pass final judgment on a Technology Preview (Param-O).

It's not as if they're completely blameless and without fault for fostering this atmosphere of pessimism, cynicism, lack of enthusiasm and low expectations among their users.

I mean, look at their track record with these sorts of things.

I would really love to be excited and hopeful about this new tool.
I really really would.
But sadly I'm carrying a great deal of scar tissue from the many many times Lucy pulled the football and left me eating dirt.

[runxel]

Bricklyne wrote:

LaszloNagy wrote:
You guys are pretty quick to pass final judgment on a Technology Preview (Param-O).

It's not as if they're completely blameless and without fault for fostering this atmosphere of pessimism, cynicism, lack of enthusiasm and low expectations among their users.

I mean, look at their track record with these sorts of things.

Bricklyne got a point there:
In the last years GS failed to deliver quite a bit, didn't they?
Ramps? Were promised to be delivered in either an update or next version.
Polygonal openings? Were promised to be delivered in the first update.

Never ever materialized. So why would a better Param-O suddenly surface?
Even if it did: great, but I don't care. Please fix all the other loose ends first. The debt is already big enough.

[JSN]

LaszloNagy wrote:

JSN wrote:
+++A bit offtopic but when I comes to forum improvements I actually have a big wish: I really want that I can just insert pictures and screenshots here directly from the clipboard. It would speed up posting things so much. This is for example nicely done in the Solibri Society Forum, there it works like a charm and it is also easier to understand what other folks are posting as they use it widely more often! +++

You can drag-and-drop one or multiple files onto the text box when creating a new post, and the files will be attached to the post.
My guess is that the reason you cannot paste the contents of the clipboard is that it is not a file on your drive so the forum software cannot handle it as such (I know that email programs can do this, looks like the phpbb forum software cannot). But this wish should be addressed to the developers of phpbb, not GRAPHISOFT.

Afaik I can drag and drop them to upload them, but I guess I still have to place them inline, never tried it out just an assumption and this is still kinda stopping the flow. Well, you are right I cannot copy from the clipboard as it is indeed not on my drive, because exactly that's the point. I make a screenshot or even a gif via shortcut and immediately paste it in the forum without having to save it somewhere.

Example:
- Copy/Take Screenshot - Paste it here Inline= ~ 2 Seconds
vs
- Copy/Take Screenshot - Save it somewhere - Search the file, open exploer, ... Drag/Drop/Upload - Place it Inline = takes a lot longer than just 2 Seconds

I know it may not be the highest priority in your eyes, however writing here is not our work or passion but mostly because we are having issues with the product and therefore the access to help should be as convenient as possible and everything that's saving time here is highly welcome if you ask me!

But this wish should be addressed to the developers of phpbb, not GRAPHISOFT.

Well, of course I wrote it's a bit offtopic but related to stuff written previously, nevertheless if I remember correctly it's your forum not mine ...

[JSN]

jl_lt wrote:
I still dont get why so much complication for a parametric object. If it was for a completely parametric building, it would be great; but all this for the ability to parametrically modify a table? am i missing something? Anyway, great to see they listened to the people and implemented this. I really hope it evolves in the opposite direction Mr. Bryckline predicts (not without reason).

That's kinda the point (at the moment). Those who really need complex parametric gdl objects can not really utilize Param-O as there is not much possibility to implement more than simple concepts so you have to script it anyhow. The parametric curtain wall elements of the Merdeka tower won't be achieved with Param-O at the current time. Moreover you still have to code when it comes to the GUI, but maybe we are really seeing improvements here soon?

For all the other use cases where native parametric changes are not so important we already have other (better) possibilities with Grasshopper or event the Library Part Maker.

by LaszloNagy » Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:16 am
You guys are pretty quick to pass final judgment on a Technology Preview (Param-O).

So, yes at the moment it is more a toy and it has the status of a technical preview but the presentation here promised a lot and having made similiar empiric expieriences in the past I guess that's why people are really critically about a "technical preview version".

[Anonymous]

I agree that we don't have to make assumptions before trying to use the tool.
Off course Param-o is in its first steps. But it already has a lot of functionalities.
Have you guys made an Youtube serch on Param-o?
Here is what I found:



It is in Spanish, but you can get there.
Some good source of practical use of Param-o.
I am sure there will be a lot more soon.

I know GS has stretched the rope A LOT. But IMO the best thing we can do is try to be constructive.