Why would the world be a better place to live when use "BIM?

[Anonymous]

After years of working with calculate quantity of materials, produce detailed models, and so on, I really can't find why we should put all the information about a building in our cadsystem.

I can se why a wall, beams, columns are the right thing with right parameters in it because of communications with constructionsoftware.

When does we overworked our buildings because of this "new BIM" talk like a god from heaven?

I think BIM is enough most of time when we could have ID and dimensions from our buildingobjects, but this has many cadsoftware problems to give us, but they could give us an option to include model, price and so on... DOH!
It's not hard to calculate the quantity of 10 doors of different types manually, but it's hard to calculate the quantity of gypsym..

[TomWaltz]

It's simple: You put the extra information in if it helps you in some way. If it doesn't help, don't do it.

[Anonymous]

TomWaltz wrote:
It's simple: You put the extra information in if it helps you in some way. If it doesn't help, don't do it.

True... But my idea of this thread wasn't about how I should do, more about how the world look at "BIM". Last years, here in Sweden, we often hear older projectleader/companyleader with alot of power in buildingindustry that hasn't a clue about computersoftwares or even how to work with computers but have heard about BIM and then all they talk about how amacing BIM is. And that's a little bit scary...

[Laszlo Nagy]

Here is an example:
In the Construction Documentation phase, there is a change in the project design. Let us say the Door sizes change or the structural engineer calculates the final size of the load bearing columns and this is a 10000 m2 building. You have about a dozen sections and elevations, plus a lot of schedules, interior elevations, details etc.
How do you handle such a situation in 2D CAD? How much time will it require to make these changes in all your drawings?
In a BIM application, you make the changes to the model and update the sections/elevations/schedules and it is pretty much done. How much time does this save compared to a 2D workflow? And we are not even speaking about the consistency of drawings or the integrity of the model, by which I mean something is represented in this drawing this way and another drawing that way. In 2D CAD it is easy to make mistakes in such a situation. With BIM this is much less probable.

[Anonymous]

agree with laszlonagy.

manual work is very large for any modification especially in the very-final stage of a design. productivity and accuracy are relatively low when making drawings in traditional 2D CAD.

i was told a story about the reason of US government to push BIM. when there was 911 issue, all the parties are going to find the drawings of the building for the teams to do some actions, however, they could not find the final version of the drawings, there were many versions of drawings.

the story tells us that, building can be built by no drawings or not accurate drawings.

however, maintenance is one of the main points in BIM. also, before design stage, we can make good use of BIM to reduce the mistakes which can minimize the error during construction.

[Anonymous]

but what have a 3d modell with bim to do? nothing, and even if we use a bim model, who said that the building are gonna look like that in the end? it hasn't to do with if it's a bim model or not, it's only depending on the people who are involved in the project if the drawings or model is up to date.
for me bim is a descriptionmodel of the building and it could be done in microsoft excel. and that's what we have done in years.

I think I'm gonna look at the characters B I M with alot of distance and "wooohooo, take it easy, slow down, BIM doesn't do the job for you". I can feel a dejavue with when we introduce CAD and companyleaders said things like "yeah, the computer make the job for you, now we don't need you anymore or you could do alot more" but the drawingwork on a 2d cad doesn't go any faster than pencildrawings. It's when you have to change things and so on you will earn money/time.

(and I see that I'm spelling english at a swedish way to put words, sorry for that, I hope you understand me)

[Mats_Knutsson]

TurboGlider wrote:
but what have a 3d modell with bim to do? nothing, and even if we use a bim model, who said that the building are gonna look like that in the end? it hasn't to do with if it's a bim model or not, it's only depending on the people who are involved in the project if the drawings or model is up to date.
for me bim is a descriptionmodel of the building and it could be done in microsoft excel. and that's what we have done in years.

I think I'm gonna look at the characters B I M with alot of distance and "wooohooo, take it easy, slow down, BIM doesn't do the job for you". I can feel a dejavue with when we introduce CAD and companyleaders said things like "yeah, the computer make the job for you, now we don't need you anymore or you could do alot more" but the drawingwork on a 2d cad doesn't go any faster than pencildrawings. It's when you have to change things and so on you will earn money/time.

(and I see that I'm spelling english at a swedish way to put words, sorry for that, I hope you understand me)

Hej TurboGlider,

The tool or model itself is not BIM just like you say, it's what you do with it!!!

I spent almost an hour yesterday on our seminar to explain what you are asking for. What BIM is from the architects point of view, what different levels of BIM there are, what detailing there is in BIM, what differs the architects BIM from the engineers BIM. I think I did a fairly good job on that and I can do the same presentation at your office over lunch.

For me the key words are IDM (aka the new improved BIM-pimped CAD-manual). Process and workflow, what information to communicate and when and to/from whom. The aecbytes article by Webcores Jim Bedrick about modeling progression and level of detail is a great read: http://www.aecbytes.com/feature/2008/MPSforBIM.html

Internal BIM vs "the big overall BIM" is also very important.

Lunch me!
Cheers,
Mats

[Anonymous]

you are right, 2D CAD was amazing. but now we noticed that mainstream 2D and 3D CAD would not our solution. and further version of them would not too. why? because they are not exactly design for building!!!

you know, there are CADs specifically for vehicles, ships, etc. but we are using some CAD is not designed for our uses.

BIM is the future trend, i know it is the beginning stage, and there are a lot of room for development.

you know, the very important thing in BIM is the IFC file type, which is owned by the industry (not like the dwg file type), IFC can let the third parties software for calculations.

no one said BIM will be easy, but BIM can help us a lot and make good use of computer instead of giving us a digital pen and unlimited paper.

believe me, BIM will be the trends, you may doubt that the BIM may be not good enough for modeling at this moment, but the computer is going to be faster and faster with lower and lower price.

BIM will be the future.

Use effort for facing it instead of escaping it.

[Anonymous]

http://www.aecbytes.com/buildingthefuture/2008/atomicBIM.html

nice topic for explaining BIM. for your reference.

[Anonymous]

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, my english fails too often. I know what BIM is and what it could do for us. But does the guys up there who sit on the money? A building is more than a model and drawings, it's a combination of alot of people, systems and so on, if one chain fails, all fails.
But I can't get it out what I'm after in this thread, I want a discussion about the word "BIM" and the dangerous about see "BIM" as our savior.