Karl wrote:Yes, it defines both, and it does it the way you describe it.laszlonagy wrote:Agree that a little more info is there, Laszlo. But, most of that does appear in the 11 reference manual and help file. Maybe we can all add some more info here?
The AC10 New Features Guide gives you a lot of info. That is the version this tool first appeared.
Unless I'm blind (possible!), neither the 10 NFG nor the current documentation mentions the importance of the origin in the profile editor, especially with respect to walls.Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the origin defines both (1) the vertical base of the wall for insertion and (2) the location of the reference line.
Fills drawn to the left of the origin are to the thickened part of the wall, relative to the ref line and the current wall geometry settings. That is, if the ref line is typically drawn on the exterior of the building, the elements to the left of the editor origin are towards the interior, and those to the right are towards the exterior.Yes, correct.
The way I put it to myself:
If you set the Wall Construction Method to Left (meaning that the Wall extends to the left of the Reference Line) then if you cut a Section through the Wall in such a way that its looks from its starting point toward its end point, you will see in the Section the Profile you draw in the Profile Manager. Not very easy to explain, a picture illustrates it muck better.
The origin-as-reference line location removes a terrible opportunity for error with composite walls. With composites, one has to use the ref line offset value if one wants the ref line to align with the core. If the composite changes, the offset has to be changed (Modify Wall), and if the user draws another wall type without resetting the offset, things become a mess. With the new complex profiles, the reference line will be locked to the correct position when the offset is kept at 0. If the structure of the profile changes, just select all and drag to relocate the assembly at the proper location relative to the editor origin.Yes, this is a problem, I just had a case today where I had to deal with this.
The Wiki article here:I checked the article (which I did write, only quite a while ago) but as I see there is no reference to how the Wall was placed. Maybe it is me who is missing something.
http://www.archicadwiki.com/TechNotes/Composite_Walls_with_Varying_Skin_Heights
(which I think you may have written?) gives an excellent example of using a complex profile vs a composite and solid element ops - although the inside/outside is the opposite of what I just said above, which makes me think I'm missing something.
An important thing in the Wiki article is that the extended brick and sheathing - down to the brick ledge - isYes, that is also an important point.belowthe editor origin, or wall base. This is something that cannot be realized with a composite wall and an SEOp. The result is that if such a complex wall is set to Automatic, it will remain on the story it is originally placed on - the extension 'does not count'. Replicating this with a complex wall and SEOp substract, the base of the wall is below the current story of insertion, and if the wall is automatic, it's home will be on a story below.
Whether the Wiki or the user manual, IMHO, much more should be written and illustrated to show the power and tradeoffs of profiles.Much more should and could... especially now, with a new version coming out every year.😉
Cheers,
Karl
Probably a separate article could be written just about the Left/Right/Center placement, plus the Offset, both in case of Straight and Complex Walls.
Laszlo
laszlonagy wrote:Don't forget to mention that the local origin of the complex profile does not set the base height of the wall if part of the profile extrudes below it. It's the lowest part of the profile that shows in the Info Box as the base of the wall. At least it's correct in the Wall Settings dialog, but it's quite confusing and inconsistent to have conflicting information between the Info Box and Settings dialog, as Karl pointed out offline.
Probably a separate article could be written just about the Left/Right/Center placement, plus the Offset, both in case of Straight and Complex Walls.
Laszlo
Cheers,
Link.
Link wrote:Right.
Don't forget to mention that the local origin of the complex profile does not set the base height of the wall if part of the profile extrudes below it. It's the lowest part of the profile that shows in the Info Box as the base of the wall. At least it's correct in the Wall Settings dialog, but it's quite confusing and inconsistent to have conflicting information between the Info Box and Settings dialog, as Karl pointed out offline.
The users receives no feedback in the Info Box as to where the base, vs bottom, of a complex profiled wall is. (In the Wall Settings Dialog, it is the base position for insertion that is set - not the location of the wall bottom.)
Attached is a screenshot of the Info Box and the Wall settings dialog showing how one can infer (do the math) the location of the base, how much extends below it, etc. - the alternative is to have to open the Profile Editor and measure. Given that the base insertion point there is 10' (relative to project 0 - 0 relative to current) in the settings, but 'b' reads as 8'-2", we can conclude that 1'-2" of the profiled wall extends below the base.
It is a real hassle to figure out the height of the wall (base to top). The setting dialog shows 11'-2", so we subtract 1'-2" to see that it is really a 10' wall. Or different math on the info box, once we know the 1'-2" extension below the base. At least it is a little easier to do the math for metric people.
GS needs to do something to unify and clarify this issue in the UI design of both Info Box and settings dialog IMHO - as Link says, it is inconsistent and confusing at present. I suspect this is one of those subtle things that just got overlooked with all of the other issues involved in the introduction of complex profiles in 10. Hopefully, they'll polish this in 12.
Cheers,
Karl
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