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2017-07-28 02:36 PM
2017-07-29 12:33 PM
Nathan wrote:Why do you think my system must be flawed? I don't think you know anything about it do you? It is flawed because you can't imagine working without a Template? Perhaps you would like to hear about how and why I do that before passing judgment about it, or assume you are qualified to critique my work.Steve wrote:Steve I am late to the party but am very passionate about BIM workflows and the use of ARCHICAD. Firstly before I start critiquing you on your views I want to understand where you are coming from. If you are a sole practitioner then feel free to stand by your views and keep doing what you are doing. I personally think your process is flawed in going from project to project but hey once again I don't know the type of work that you do. It may be cookie cutter stuff where you keep doing the same stuff over and over again. I suggest you watch your attribute mess you are creating and the library mess also.Link wrote:Templates are great for beginners, for people who have little or no imagination for how to use ArchiCAD more efficiently, and people who are constrained by the need for strict and static standardization.
...
If you're not using a dedicated template you're doing it wrong! :winkI:
Cheers,
Link.All of which are legitimate reasons to use a dedicated Template.None of those things apply to me.
If you are not assembling new projects with pre-modeled assemblies from completed projects -youare doing it wrong.
Moving onto templates. I must be the biggest beginner here right now because I have once of the most complex templates used in practice globally. So I feel you have no idea of the needs for a well thought out template to control good quality output from over 50 staff. Now you talk as if when a template is created in one release it is frozen. No it isn't if there is something great that has been created on a project then you copy that across into the master template for the practice. Done once and then available for reuse. Pretty simple stuff really. Take your approach and you have excess information in the file that is not going to be 100% reused on the next project. Templates are useful for beginners to experts, maybe Rob Jackson is a beginner as well. Might pass on the message to him for you as well.
Cheers
Nathan
ArchiCAD 25 7000 USA - Windows 10 Pro 64x - Dell 7720 64 GB 2400MHz ECC - Xeon E3 1535M v6 4.20GHz - (2) 1TB M.2 PCIe Class 50 SSD's - 17.3" UHD IPS (3840x2160) - Nvidia Quadro P5000 16GB GDDR5 - Maxwell Studio/Render 5.2.1.49- Multilight 2 - Adobe Acrobat Pro - ArchiCAD 6 -25
2017-07-29 12:55 PM
2017-07-29 06:25 PM
Steve wrote:
There is no need to "sett up" a new project. You open a similar project or two if needed, and let the new one evolve as you assemble it, mostly via copy and pasting pre-modeled building ststems that are simply placed and adjusted for the new configurations to make new buildings. There are unorthodox "Workflows" that are exponentially more efficient than the start with a Template idea. There is one Template I do like to use on occasion. It's called the Clear Template think it can be found in a search on this forum.
2017-07-29 06:34 PM
Steve wrote:Last comment, then I'm not even checking this thread any more.
They are good for beginners, those lacking in imagination, and those who need to comply with strict office standards. Those are objective facts are they not?
And like I said - these are all legitimate reasons to use a Template. Also an objective fact. Right?
2017-07-29 11:56 PM
2017-07-30 05:50 AM
patmay81 wrote:This is a ridiculous thing to say, Templates are "inconceivably tedious" for sure, and from my point of view, templates are stone aged and Steve's method is sleek, cool, clean, and FAST. Especially for the solo partictioner. My 2 cent's worth.
Both these methods will yield better, more accurate, more consistent results than digging into an old "similar" project and deleting and rebuilding. This is inconceivably tedious, unless you are ok with bringing in modeling/documenting/file errors into every project you ever work on. You may feel like you aren't reinventing the wheel, and maybe your not. But by using a high quality template, that wheel is already mounted to a formula one race car. One method is stone aged, the other is sleek, cool, clean, and fast.
2017-07-30 06:09 AM
Richard wrote:What's inflammatory is saying "if your not using a Template - your doing is wrong". And this is the quotation from the person who sells Templates.
I'll probably take a little heat, but I am not unsympathetic to Steve's viewpoint. "Lacking in imagination" is a little inflammatory, maybe, but I think people are using the term "template" in different ways. Certainly a beginner needs a template, or they are working very inefficiently. But at the other extreme, starting a new project in a blank (no details, walls, etc.) template seems very inefficient to me. If you have 80% or more of a similar project already done, why would you throw all that away just to make sure the new project has the absolute latest layer set?
I _think_ what Steve is saying is that the last project is the latest template for that type of project. Delete some walls, save with a .tpl extension (or not), and you've got a very valid and continually evolving "template." I don't think anyone is suggesting being disorganized or just letting layers or attributes happen a different way each time.
ArchiCAD 25 7000 USA - Windows 10 Pro 64x - Dell 7720 64 GB 2400MHz ECC - Xeon E3 1535M v6 4.20GHz - (2) 1TB M.2 PCIe Class 50 SSD's - 17.3" UHD IPS (3840x2160) - Nvidia Quadro P5000 16GB GDDR5 - Maxwell Studio/Render 5.2.1.49- Multilight 2 - Adobe Acrobat Pro - ArchiCAD 6 -25
2017-07-30 06:13 AM
Nathan wrote:Your comment did not go unnoticed or unappreciated. It is difficult to respond to all the attacks at the same time. And impossible to address every misrepresentation.
Steve I stand by my comment mate. Just read my response properly. As a sole practitioner do what you want to do it doesn't effect anyone else. Just don't try and force a sole practitioner workflow at others that have differing needs to yours. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. And I made that comment at the start of my post. You fit the bill for being everything a template based practice isn't so keep doing what you are doing.
Have a good weekend.
Cheers
Nathan
ArchiCAD 25 7000 USA - Windows 10 Pro 64x - Dell 7720 64 GB 2400MHz ECC - Xeon E3 1535M v6 4.20GHz - (2) 1TB M.2 PCIe Class 50 SSD's - 17.3" UHD IPS (3840x2160) - Nvidia Quadro P5000 16GB GDDR5 - Maxwell Studio/Render 5.2.1.49- Multilight 2 - Adobe Acrobat Pro - ArchiCAD 6 -25
2017-07-30 05:54 PM
I created a great template file in our office that we've been using for quite a few years now. My question is; is there a point where I should start from scratch and create a new one?Your answer…
I have never understood the value of a Template. And others can't imagine working without one. Every time you finish a project you have created another Template haven't you? And these are the source for assembling other projects are they not?Then I gave my answer and you told me I was wrong in my workflow since I don't follow yours
There is no need to "sett up" a new project. You open a similar project or two if needed, and let the new one evolve as you assemble it, mostly via copy and pasting pre-modeled building ststems that are simply placed and adjusted for the new configurations to make new buildings.…Then you went "personal" though with an emoji at the end
Templates are great for beginners, for people who have little or no imagination for how to use ArchiCAD more efficiently, and people who are constrained by the need for strict and static standardization. All of which are legitimate reasons to use a dedicated Template. None of those things apply to me.Then Richard gave a good overview
If you are not assembling new projects with pre-modeled assemblies from completed projects - you are doing it wrong. Wink
I'll probably take a little heat, but I am not unsympathetic to Steve's viewpoint. "Lacking in imagination" is a little inflammatory, maybe, but I think people are using the term "template" in different ways. Certainly a beginner needs a template, or they are working very inefficiently. But at the other extreme, starting a new project in a blank (no details, walls, etc.) template seems very inefficient to me. If you have 80% or more of a similar project already done, why would you throw all that away just to make sure the new project has the absolute latest layer set?So did Nathan
I _think_ what Steve is saying is that the last project is the latest template for that type of project. Delete some walls, save with a .tpl extension (or not), and you've got a very valid and continually evolving "template." I don't think anyone is suggesting being disorganized or just letting layers or attributes happen a different way each time.
Steve I stand by my comment mate. Just read my response properly. As a sole practitioner do what you want to do it doesn't effect anyone else. Just don't try and force a sole practitioner workflow at others that have differing needs to yours. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. And I made that comment at the start of my post. You fit the bill for being everything a template based practice isn't so keep doing what you are doing.Then Brett went with "my workflow" is perfect so no need for template argument for the 'Solo" practitioner
This is a ridiculous thing to say, Templates are "inconceivably tedious" for sure, and from my point of view, templates are stone aged and Steve's method is sleek, cool, clean, and FAST. Especially for the solo partictioner. My 2 cent's worth.Then you went personal again
…I will stand by the the idea that you are lacking in imagination if you can not comprehend how to reproduce a similar project to ones you have already completed without using a one-size-fits-all dedicated over bloated Template- made by someone who has no idea about what you already have to work with.and then you went with a kind of "my way is the better way:
…
What I do know is that I don't need to use any dedicated one-size-fits-all over bloated Template made by someone else.I disagree with the "value dissipates comment" since that is the way things should work.
There is another way, it is very easy to do, and has many advantages, and I like to work this way.…
For starters, the value of the Template dissipates quickly when you develop enough skill with ArchiCAD to produce what you might put into a Template on the fly. The template is really not saving you as much time after a while as it did the first time you used ArchiCAD. Some people can use the Attributes manager with cat like reflex. Others are not even allowed to touch it. Ever!.
The Template also becomes less and less useful as the project develops until at some point it - perhaps not even too far into it - you are not even using anything that was in the Template. They have their purpose and usefulness. But their usefulness does have it's limits.
…All would agree I am sure that there is an enormous amount of content in that project that could save a great deal of time if you could re-use it. Or if you can re-use it 10 times, or 100 times, or even 1000 times. Those projects are extremely valuable - if - you can find a way to reuse what is in them again. If tapping into that gets is not compatible with the Template paradigm you are using - get rid of it. You don't need it that bad.and it is the argument that I could use for spending the time creating templates. All my projects are not the same neither all the projects that I help coordinate so spending the time updating my template helps me save a lot of time, collaborating with other architects, doing tech support, teaching AC, Construction Documents and Design Studios at University
Now consider what it would take to generate a Template out a similar completed project. Not much at all. Perhaps only a matter of minuets.
After you have optimized it for archiving - flushed out anything you don't need in the file (if you haven't been keeping it perfectly clean for the start) and save it as a .tpl and you are almost done. Now use the Attributes manager to strip out anything you know you wont want, or add some things you know you will want. Now in 3D, show all, select all, and delete. That should take care of 90% or more of the content you would not want in a Template. I the perfect ArchiCAD model, there is very little 2D content to get rid of. Then go story by story, show all select all, delete.
This is how you make a Template that will be most similar to the completed project that has developed it. And this should probably not take five or ten minutes to complete.
Now that you have an optimised Template for the new similar project, what value is it? What is there in that Template that is worth even that little effort? Not much at all. And what is there, could be added as you work, as you need it, and without missing a beat.
Macbook Pro M1 Max 64GB ram, OS X 10.XX latest
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2017-08-01 02:32 AM
ArchiCAD 25 7000 USA - Windows 10 Pro 64x - Dell 7720 64 GB 2400MHz ECC - Xeon E3 1535M v6 4.20GHz - (2) 1TB M.2 PCIe Class 50 SSD's - 17.3" UHD IPS (3840x2160) - Nvidia Quadro P5000 16GB GDDR5 - Maxwell Studio/Render 5.2.1.49- Multilight 2 - Adobe Acrobat Pro - ArchiCAD 6 -25