Using Teamwork as a standard practice.

[Anonymous]

We have decided to begin using teamwork as a standard practice on ALL projects. This decision has been based on the tremendous performance improvements I have seen in AC 8.1. There are now no significant delays in signing in, changing workspace, sending and receiving, etc. compared to opening and saving a solo project. The only added overhead is (obviously) the requirement to define the workspace.

The advantages we see are greater security against data loss (multiple backups & local drafts) and more administrative control of standards (having to sign in with with exclusive access to change attributes.

I am posting this both to provoke feedback and discussion as well as to promote the idea to others and respond to any questions people might have.

Any takers?

[__archiben]

Ted wrote:
I may be thick about this, but satellites seem to need/want to read the parent library if it is available on the network so any time savings is out the window.

ted

you are right - at every draft open, sign-in or send and receive archiCAD requires that the network libraries be present. however after comparing the server library with the local cache, archiCAD proceeds to load up the local cache WAY quicker than loading across the network (sorry matthew - although slightly quicker in 8.1/OSX 10.3, it is still too painful. your 'strict standards' may be helping you - we are not as strict as we should be . . . . )

what archiCAD's cache libraries don't allow, and probably what you're referring to ted, is for offline working. i too would like to see archiCAD check the network library if it has a connection, but ignore it and just load up the cache libraries if not - much in the same way that opening a teamwork draft offline operates, i.e. 'could not validate, etc... you are working at your own risk'.

~/archiben

[Anonymous]

I have posted a hastily composed wish (at http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=1132) part of which could ease our library loading pain.

I would like to see the PLA file type become the standard project file. Or, put another way, I would like to have the project file contain all the library parts actually used in the project, with external libraries loaded for reference and browsing.

Once a library part is added to the project from the external libraries it would be copied into the project itself. Besides making the project portable this would also provide protection against library parts being modified and thereby change the project without notice. Right now the only way to avoid this is to rigorously insist that parts must be renamed if modified, since there is no warning in ArchiCAD if a part has been changed since it was used.

When the reference libraries are available ArchiCAD would check them against the internal project library and notify the user of any discrepancies. The user would then have the option of updating one or the other (assuming they have sufficient privileges).

There are certainly many issues of file management, work flow, etc. that would need to be looked at. This approach has the potential to create new problems through proliferation of numerous modified versions of the same part, and the tracking and management of dependencies (macro calls etc.) between library parts would need to be looked improved.

[__archiben]

matthew

i saw that. i think that it's a very valid 'wish' (hope?!) and voted accordingly!

i am trying to separate in my mind the theoretical potential and the reality that i am faced with, (and previously commented about), when considering this topic and your two related wishes. in the theoretical sense i am in complete agreement with you.

there will inevitably be issues that need ironing out, particularly with workflows and management, and so airing them as proposals on this forum can only be a good thing: how many times have graphisoft implemented a great new feature and not quite got it right first time?!

so keep it coming matthew - even if you are just having a 'conversation' with yourself. i for one enjoy reading and thinking about what you propose, and the detail of just how archiCAD may work in future releases will already be worked out and ready for graphisoft to code!

~/archiben

[Anonymous]

~/archiben wrote:

i too would like to see archiCAD check the network library if it has a connection, but ignore it and just load up the cache libraries if not - much in the same way that opening a teamwork draft offline operates, i.e. 'could not validate, etc... you are working at your own risk'.

~/archiben

Matthew and Ben, I haven't thought through the +/- of PLAs, but I think what I am suggesting is a preference in ArchiCAD that dictates whether the Library Manager automatically goes out to the MSFS libraries (mother ship file server over the network) OR let the user initiate when the libraries compare (whether they are offline or not)...

I have to jump into a meeting, but I have a little more to say later today. Thanks

[Anonymous]

~/archiben wrote:

you are right - at every draft open, sign-in or send and receive archiCAD requires that the network libraries be present. however after comparing the server library with the local cache, archiCAD proceeds to load up the local cache WAY quicker than loading across the network

~/archiben

I don't think my tests yielded any of the "WAY quicker" part...

Ben, I am very willing to run test again if you can point me in the direction of having projects loading faster. What circumstance are you describing in which local ArchiCAD has compared its cached libraries with the server libraries and then loads something quicker? Maybe a step-by-step of sign-in, save PLC (local or net), draft, send/receive, draft, etceteras, etceteras would help me get my workflow thinking in line with yours. We have eight users and the majority of our projects are shared, so any gains are really very helpful.

I think I understand what Matthew is pressing for regarding PLAs. This is my opinion and not necessarily that of my office, but I would like to throw out there that the software could be designed to coordinate local and remote libraries in the background, or maybe better to leave it in the hands of the people and provide tools that instruct ArchiCAD to check for differences and report back what it finds (i.e. 'could not validate', etc...) I think we protect ourself against unintended changes to library parts by using read-only directories on the server for standardized parts. The job library is a free for all and teammates are trusted. As Matthew points out, we rename modified standard parts with v1, v2, v17 as needed to create unique names.

Anyway, we run Mac workstations and servers (Dual G4s with Panther) on a gigabit network and yet sign-in times still seem too long to me...

[Anonymous]

My experience with AC7 and earlier was that using local satellite libraries was much faster at start-up than loading over the network. The initial setup was rather slow but the pay off was worth it.

In AC8.0 using cache (nee satellite) libraries seemed to be far slower all around and in teamwork especially so as it apparently loaded the libraries twice.

I gave up quickly trying to test this any further because it was SO slow in 8.0, and I haven't found the time to try it in 8.1. It sounds like others' experience suggests that things aren't much better.

For the time being it seems that the best practice is to keep the changeable libraries (the project libraries) on the server and keep the standard libraries on the local machines. I am going to try setting things up this way in the next couple of days and will post my findings.

It may be that if the standard libraries are in the ArchiCAD application folder they will be found automatically when a project is opened on different machines, but I haven't tested this yet. I am also not sure how this might affect teamwork, but it should probably be OK.

[Anonymous]

Matthew wrote:

For the time being it seems that the best practice is to keep the changeable libraries (the project libraries) on the server and keep the standard libraries on the local machines.

It may be that if the standard libraries are in the ArchiCAD application folder they will be found automatically when a project is opened on different machines, but I haven't tested this yet. I am also not sure how this might affect teamwork, but it should probably be OK.

I look forward to what you find out. I will run subsequent tests here. I am taking the position that all of our projects will be run in Teamwork. I have wondered that if Workstation Z signs in and the standard library is loaded from ZeusHD>ArchiCAD>ArchiCAD_Library and then Workstation A wants to sign in if they will be asked to find the absolute path of ZeusHD>ArchiCAD>ArchiCAD_Library across the network. Hopefully Workstation A will get to use AthenaHD>ArchiCAD>ArchiCAD_Library...! If ArchiCAD handles it the way I would like, then I will simple make the local copies of the standard libraries read-only (MacOSX) and all should be good. Thanks in advance. I'll be tuned in...

[Anonymous]

Workstation Z signs in and the standard library is loaded from ZeusHD>ArchiCAD>ArchiCAD_Library and then Workstation A wants to sign in if they will be asked to find the absolute path of ZeusHD>ArchiCAD>ArchiCAD_Library across the network. Hopefully Workstation A will get to use AthenaHD>ArchiCAD>ArchiCAD_Library...!

I have found that having different paths on different workstations causes a problem with PLN linked views when updating from plotmaker. It would be better if all of the hard drives had the same generic name. That way the path would be the same no matter which station.
You will be asked to find the missing library when moving from station to station, but once you have located the correct library on your machine it is easy to just click on the history tab and locate the local library.

[Anonymous]

Millard wrote:
I have found that having different paths on different workstations causes a problem with PLN linked views when updating from plotmaker. It would be better if all of the hard drives had the same generic name.

We've found the same problem, Millard. Unfortunately, each machine in our office must have its own identity for the network backup system to work. It also would make it hard for a network administrator to fix problems remotely.

A far better solution would be for AC to store a setting that tries the local drive for libraries first, or use a wildcard name at the root directory level. The only library we need to access locally is the AC standard one - project and office std libraries are small enough that network loads are reasonable.

[Anonymous]

Wes,

The computers can still have different network identities (computer names). Millard is talking about naming the hard drives the same; like going back to the default "Macintosh HD". There is still some potential for confusion and I'm not sure I like the uniformity of it, but it might be worthwhile if it save a lot of time.