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Missing vertex in ArchiCAD models?

Anonymous
Not applicable
Hi all, I'm new to AC and have just been playing around with it for a bit. I always render in 3ds max, so have been testing how compatible AC is with exporting to max.

I have come across a strange problem, that when I have a wall with either 2 windows or 2 doors, that are parallel to each other. If I export to 3ds max as a .3ds (or dwg/dxf/obj) I find that the wall face is split into 2 polygons. This would normally be ok, but if I move the polygon I find that it is missing a vertex. Basically it’s an edge that passes through another edge, without being connected. This creates problems further down the line for me unless I fix it, in max. But this could be become very time consuming, as you can imagine doing each, one by one. I have not seen this problem before using ADT. So assume that ArchiCAD is generating poor models. I would like to know if it’s possible to edit or control the way ArchiCAD is generating its models? Or anything else that would help.

Thanks

I have attached 2 images from max to illustrate the problem more clearly
11 REPLIES 11

Anonymous
Not applicable
Anyone? Is this posted in the correct section?

Anonymous
Not applicable
Raphael wrote:
Anyone? Is this posted in the correct section?
I think you are in the right section.

Anyway, when I look at the wall in your post I see this strange line (see below); do you have 2 empty openings overlapping? 2 walls overlapping?

Draw a marquee to include the 2 openings.
Activate the door tool and go to Edit/Select All Doors in Marquee
Activate the arrow tool and go to Edit/Select All in Marquee
(do not ask why a "Select All in Marquee" doesn't get the doors or windows when the arrow tool is active)

Now go to Edit/Edit selection Set.

It should show that 2 doors and one wall have been selected. If there's something else there, it could be the problem.

Select each of the openings and see if they overlap, that could also be the problem.

Anonymous
Not applicable
Thx for the reply Woodster, I have followed your instructions, and it does indeed show that 2 doors and one wall have been selected, there is nothing else.

If I adjust the height of one door/window, so they are not horizontally parallel along the wall with the other door/window, this problem does not occur. I can also create this line/problem that you see (that the red arrow is pointing to) repeatedly, whether it be a new file or not. I have also tried different walls, doors and windows.

I have attached another image, showing the wall after I have conveted to to a editable poly, and welded all vertices. You can see that I have moved two of these vertices, and it shows them just sitting on top of an edge. This is not good. Originally before the vertices are welded, there are 3 of them sitting at the same point.

I have also tried the import ArchiCAD to Max script/plugin, but results are the same, and as I have said before other file types. Thus I can only conclude that ArchiCAD is doing something strange, when it generates the model.

Any Ideas?

stefan
Booster
Have you tried welding your vertices in 3ds max? That glues the geometry correctly into itself.

I have have smoothing errors and rendering errors in the past, where welding seemed to solve quite a few small problems.

I had even attempted to start a MaxScript to cleanup the ArchiCAD imported model, but I didn't got it working.
--- stefan boeykens --- architect-engineer-musician ---
ARCHICAD25/Revit2022/Rhino7/Unity2021/Solibri
MBP2019:i9Octo2.4GHz32GBVega20/BigSur+Win11
ARCHICAD-user since 1998

Anonymous
Not applicable
Yes stefan I have also tried the max import script, and I got it to work, but it does not solve this problem. I have also tried welding vertex's aswell. But the problem is, that the models that come in from ArchiCAD, has a vertex sitting on top of another edge/line.... there is no other vertex to join to.... the only way to fix it is to add the vertex myself!!

Look at the last picture I uploaded, it shows where I pull the vertex away (to the side), that it was just on top of another line. This is the same if I export the ArchiCAD model into AutoCAD etc. The problem is with ArchiCAD... I would say even before I get to the export button. ArchiCAd is just generating poorly constructed models.

So as to my original question, what can I do inside the ArchiCAD program to change this?

stefan
Booster
You don't have any control over the internal ArchiCAD triangulation (which comes as no surprise).

There is an optimize modifier in max too. Maybe that'll solve some minor problems.

But IMHO I don't remodel in 3ds max. I model the building in ArchiCAD and use it "as is". I do updates in ArchiCAD and re-import and in a few minutes everything is transferred. I copy new modifiers from the old model over the new elements. It's not as automatic as the ArchiCAD-Cinema4D integration but it'll work.
--- stefan boeykens --- architect-engineer-musician ---
ARCHICAD25/Revit2022/Rhino7/Unity2021/Solibri
MBP2019:i9Octo2.4GHz32GBVega20/BigSur+Win11
ARCHICAD-user since 1998

Anonymous
Not applicable
Hmm... Ok, this is disappointing to say the least. I would not mind if there was some kind of automatic method to fix all of them in a model. But as far as I know this can only be done manually

Its almost like a model on top of another model, but some of the vertex's/points are shifted so that they do not aligne with the original vertex's.

Thanks anyway Stefan. I wonder if anyone else has any other ideas? Maybe I should have posted this in one of the more popular threads

R.

Anonymous
Not applicable
Anyone have the answer?

Djordje
Advisor
stefan wrote:
You don't have any control over the internal ArchiCAD triangulation (which comes as no surprise).
If I am not wrong, there used to be a triangulation API sometimes in 6.5 or 7 ... will have to investigate ...
Djordje



ArchiCAD since 4.55 ... 1995
HP Omen

Anonymous
Not applicable
Maybe some with ArchiCad API and 3ds-file knowledge could write a better export instruction than the standard in AC?
When you export you got more faces than you need (like top of wall, faces between 2 connected wall and gap around windows, all vertex around holes not connected to wall faces) so often you have too optimize the 3d model in 3d Max if you build big worlds and shall make an interactive animation and let your customer walk around like in 3d games.

/Tobias

stefan
Booster
TurboGlider wrote:
Maybe some with ArchiCad API and 3ds-file knowledge could write a better export instruction than the standard in AC?
When you export you got more faces than you need (like top of wall, faces between 2 connected wall and gap around windows, all vertex around holes not connected to wall faces) so often you have too optimize the 3d model in 3d Max if you build big worlds and shall make an interactive animation and let your customer walk around like in 3d games.

/Tobias
That is, if you can access the real geometry in the ArchiCAD API... You can query triangulated geometry with the API, but that leaves all the control to the internal ArchiCAD engine.

I've used the API to export an ArchiCAD model into Radiance format and it works, but isn't perfect... You can access the non-triangulated geometry as well, but then you have to be sure that you can do the triangulation yourself. And this is very much dependent on the target application.

All in all, I've had good success exporting ArchiCAD models into whatever 3D-application that I could run on my PC, but it's true that the 3ds max model needed some adjustment to get rid of the rendering errors...

The same model (as a 3ds file) came through fine in Cinema4D.
--- stefan boeykens --- architect-engineer-musician ---
ARCHICAD25/Revit2022/Rhino7/Unity2021/Solibri
MBP2019:i9Octo2.4GHz32GBVega20/BigSur+Win11
ARCHICAD-user since 1998

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