ArchiCAD lists - quantity takeoffs

[Ahmed_K]

Hello,
another dark side in Archicad, lists, data base and their usage , i found some good exemples of using lists for cost estimation, but without any explanation,
there is a book from GRAPHISOFTthat explains some exepmle, but not sufficient to start workin or understanding the lists system
i use schedules for cost estimation , but lists look more advanced and flexible
Any Help please ?
Where to start and how can i use them for my daily work ( cost estimation )

[Podolsky]

Yes, lists are very interesting feature. It's not so flexible in terms of annotation of the preview drawings, also you cannot change values in the list as you can do in schedules or export to Excel. It's actually completely static pages.
There are two types of lists - text and graphical. Text actually you can export to Excel. But it's really really primitive (rudiment from very early versions like AC 5).
Graphical is more advanced.
How listing is happening. ArchiCAD has property sections in GDL scripts. Also there is GDL property objects. GDL property objects can be attached to any element by using 'attach property by criteria' - the dialog remains by its structure find&select.
There is also data bases.
So list can read parameters from the object (like wall length, or any parameter from GDL object), attach this parameter to any value from database and show the result. I think it supports primitive mathematical functions.
There is plenty of interesting features you can get from that - but mostly with help of GDL programming. Like GDL property object, attached to the element can generate its own drawing.
Also you can do such a things as list fills, placed on details and worksheets.
However, user interface of setting new lists is very old and rudimental. I might say - not easy to use.

Listing feature today is hidden completely. If you want to try play with that - you need first to add commands to menu, related to listing. I hope you know how to modify menu. Subgroup I think called 'Calculation'.

I used listing with GDL programming to create simple scheduling tool. The idea was - to give to user simple tool to make good looking schedules but provide different interface written on GDL. You can check it in my template: https://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=72947

Maybe using some principle possible to create some tools for price calculation... I wish that listing and scheduling features would be merged into one to have more powerful tool for calculations and scheduling.

Also I would like to notice - listing will not extract amount of material so precise as scheduling. It does not support building material and gives only basic geometry parameters of objects.

[runxel]

Also be aware that the old lists can not deal with any new features implemented in the last versions.
So stairs, railings, CWs, beams, columns, (and all their subparts), and openings will not work at all.
GS has already told a few times that they will retire the function – and to be honest I wonder why it's still somewhat accessible. Possibly it won't for too long.
I wouldn't bother fiddling with it, even tho I have to admit that the oldstyle lists had some neat features that are now lost.

[Ahmed_K]

Thanks for the feedback !
unfortunately my GDL skills are almost equal to zero so , any try to implement lists would first need some gdl skills,
i expected that ,
I love the idea of data base in Lists, that's why i thought about, actually my fatabase is inside excel, with some advanced formulas, excel can detect the code of the element and assign to it the correct description,
it would be nice to implement this inside ArchiCAD directly ,
the problem now when using excel is :
when working on components, some BM parameters propreties aren't accessible directly in component schedules
when working on elements, we can't acess to components , we need that bidirectional cennection to extract some data whih refers to an element

[Rick Thompson]

I use listing pretty much every day to generate material list. It is quit tedious to deal with, but once set up works fine. It's all about linking a composite or object (as an example) to a property object, which draws from the data base within the listing files. I had to manually add many object descriptors to the data base to handle things like "2x10x16". I have objects individually linked to those data base entries and manually place things like floor joist on the framing layers to produce framing list. They are linking via ID's. The roof wizard does a great job for roofs... more or less:). I have to manually strip off duplicates since it generates rounded off number/lenghts and exact lenghts.

It is VERY depressing that GS has not developed this function. To me it make BIM a joke that users struggle so much to generate material list from AC. I thought that was part of the definition?? I did beta testing for over a decade and was rewarded with new releases until I stopped with AC20. I have no reason to buy updates till they do something about this. I was hopeful when I read under the AC25 "more accurate quantity take-offs" but have yet to find an reference to what that means??? A new cabinet object... really???

Without linking a property set up property object to a composite I don't know if there is a way to extract the number of studs, number of 4x8 sheets of sheathing.. baseboard.. paint.. siding etc for a wall. Listing does this with ease once set up.

If you PM me I can email you an old guide to set up listing, but it is challenging at best. I gave up using the graphic template and export tab/decimal for a data base organization. Each section is a separate export (example.. foundation.. framing.. electrical.. etc). That said, I can't imagine they will continue to ignore this forever, but I have been wrong for so many years, and that's really depressing. I'm a user since AC4.5. You can download an example list from my web site, I actually need to update it since it's a old example and I have improved them since, but you can get an idea of what it does.

BTW.. I have zero GDL skills, but setting up a property object is no big deal ONCE you get the basics down.

Beast wishes

[Nuge]

Try Archiquant, new version is quite the thing for take offs

http://www.cigraph.it/en/node/324

[Ahmed_K]

I'm currently using the C5D Cost esqtimate tool from CONTRABIM, it does the job perfectly, i asked for lists to see is there a possibility to implement them in the workflow ,
Archiquant wasn't updated since 7 years i think , CI tools developped another solution for takeoffs and cost estimating and looks promessing

[Rick Thompson]

I do remember trying it years ago and did not like it at all. I think it required a major setting up for each pln, and that was a big stop for me since I work with hundreds pln's on a regular basis (stock house plans). Maybe I am remembering wrong too I think AC has an elegent fundamental solution but have failed miserably to evolve it. Especially when they introduced Building Materials. What a perfect potential to link with property objects. Now, I have ID linking to a composite (etc) and that works great. The organization sucks big time. At least with AC and Favorites a new file can inherit the linked property objects stored in AC.