Freeform Modelling (and Revit 8.1)

[stefan]

The wrote:
Main Improvements in Revit Building 8.1:
Considering that it is just a point release, Revit Building 8.1 packs a surprising number of new features. To start with, it enhances the Building Maker functionality for conceptual design mentioned in the previous section by enabling the import of NURBS surfaces from other applications in the form of DWG or SAT files. These can be turned into mass objects in Building Maker, after which you can create roofs, walls, floors, and curtain systems from selected faces (see Figure 5-a). A separate but related ability is the creation of non-vertical walls from massing components, created within Revit Building or imported from other applications (see Figure 5-b). These non-vertical walls behave like the regular walls: you can place doors and windows in them; they can be joined to other walls; they appear properly cut in plan views; they are correctly listed in schedules; and they can be exported along with their information to ODBC and other formats. Considering that Revit Building lacks a good set of freeform modeling tools, these new capabilities make it easier to bring conceptual massing models created in other applications into Revit Building and convert them into building models rather than having to start from scratch.
http://www.aecbytes.com/review/RevitBuilding8.htm

This would interest many people in the discussion around MaxonForm.

[Anonymous]

What is AC's user base?

[Chazz]

Did I say Architura? Of course I meant Architrion

If you're going to get on the soap box, at least get the words right....

[Rob]

Chazz,

I am not really sure what you actually call momentum. Firstly, I think, Revit hasn't introduced anything revolutionary, it has just adopted what had been explored before by other software in the process where AC played (in my opinion) a major part. Secondly, I do not believe that all ACAD users are so keen to migrate from safe flatlands to 3D environment of Revit or any 3D environment I should say so quickly as you perhaps suggesting. I can't see any exceptional ease of use with Revit for ACAD 2D users. Same developer? well personally I would not give a s...
To your comment about teensy-weensy squares I should point out on Revit's library parts user interface which really reminds me of MS Access '98. So my point is that each software has got some cosmetic bugs.(in this case what it really is - may be you have used a bad example).
The interface itself is a matter of personal taste I suppose as I don't think that Revit one is extremely appealing - in my opinion it's sterile as it gets, strictly following recommendation and gadgets of Microsoft, not really a happy choice. However, I agree that AC8 was a real disaster which has had actually bigger impact on marketing and potential users then GS admits even today.

Towards Revit, well, isn't it just new kid in the block backed by a massive marketing campaign? Perhaps yes and if you are a potential buyer, well, do your research first and then decide what suits you best I suppose.

[Anonymous]

Personally V9 was the greatest dissapointement i ever has with any software.
V8 had bugs. Yes. But it move the software forward. A lot.

V9 is a dissaster.
Let me count how many features i use (and need from V9)

1) Magnet tool
2) Text tool
3) Edge move in polyline wall slab roof enitites.
4) Auto Pdf export (if would use it if the amuni exported the greek aplhabet correctly or if i could change the driver that the temprorary printer uses)

Thats all. Not even 5!!!!
About lightworks ( if i want a good rendering engine, i use a deticaded one with much superior results)

So lets hope v10 would have more features that v8 brought us and the stability that v9 has.

[TomWaltz]

oreopoulos wrote:
About lightworks ( if i want a good rendering engine, i use a deticaded one with much superior results)

So lets hope v10 would have more features that v8 brought us and the stability that v9 has.

It's interesting to hear you say that. We stopped paying for Artlantis, and replaced 90% of our Cinema 4D work with Lightworks. For us, that alone was a huge benefit.

I have a hard time admitting that since when AC9 came out, I saw no point in the improved rendering engine.

I actually like 9 quite a bit more than 8/8.1. The feature set improvement was not that extensive, but all of my staff felt there was a huge usability improvement. Again, I was not so excited about it, but everyone else loved it.

[Anonymous]

Yes Lightworks is the best improvemet since teamwork.
The next would be defining stories within sections same as we define sections within a plan.
Then the next wold be to be able to move view between two project view sets. Best wold be to use the operating system (finder) as the publisher.

I am asking again what is AC user base size.

[Chazz]

Rob wrote:
I am not really sure what you actually call momentum. Firstly, I think, Revit hasn't introduced anything revolutionary, it has just adopted what had been explored before by other software in the process where AC played (in my opinion) a major part.

Thanks for taking the bait, Rob . I think it's fair to say that Revit's aspiration (whether it has succeeded is perhaps debatable) is to focus on the relationship between building elements so that the model becomes more intelligent and less delicate when the inevitable revisions are needed. In other words: parametrics. Reveit basically takes everything that ArchiCad has done to date as rote. BIM is now old hat. Parametrics as applied to architecture is a revolutionary rather than evolutionary step and so far GS is an almost total no-show in this department (yes, the library parts are nice). This single fact is the most damning indictment against the company I know. When I worry about GS's future, this is why I worry. Don't believe me? Read this:

CADENCE wrote:
Revit has rewritten the rules of engagement for AEC CAD competition. Other vendors and tools have contributed to the shift, but Revit-both the company and thesoftware-led the way.The notion of 3D, integrated, object-oriented CAD has been kicked around the industry for at least 25 years.....Revit's parametric change engine approach grabbed people's attention and raised everyone's expectation of what was possible

By the way, that was written in February 2001.

Rob wrote:
Secondly, I do not believe that all ACAD users are so keen to migrate from safe flatlands to 3D environment of Revit or any 3D environment I should say so quickly as you perhaps suggesting.

I think my point is that, eventually these people are going to have to migrate to something, and where do you think they're most likely to go? As hardware gets faster and software gets smarter the advantages of 3D will become just too compelling to not migrate. As a product with the backing of AutoDesk, Revit is uniquely positioned to drive migration to itself, much more so than an Hungarian company that is mostly absent from the glossy trade publications people read.

It will be interesting to see what R10 brings but my feeling is that if they have anything less that a fundamental paradigm shift up their sleeve, their goose is cooked. Despite what other vocal people on this list insist, it ain't about the tools. It's about smarter software. At this point I think GS survives because they are the only real player on the OSX and lets face it, migrating to anything else is such a huge disruption. We are all frogs on the lilly pad as the water gets gradually warmer.

[TomWaltz]

I think the more interesting questions are these:
What is Archicad's User Base now?
What was Archicad's User Base 1 year ago?
What is Revit's User Base now?
What was Revit's User Base 1 year ago?

Everyone talks about Revit' high-speed upgrade cycle and massive new features. Have all these new features made a difference in the User Base? Have they for Archicad? Have they made a change in the speed of growth of the User Base or either program?

[__archiben]

oreopoulos wrote:
Personally V9 was the greatest dissapointement i ever has with any software.

and you never shut up about it either. still haven't.

V9 is a dissaster.
Let me count how many features i use (and need from V9)

1) Magnet tool
2) Text tool
3) Edge move in polyline wall slab roof enitites.
4) Auto Pdf export (if would use it if the amuni exported the greek aplhabet correctly or if i could change the driver that the temprorary printer uses)

and how much time did you save with those 5 simple productivity enhancements? as a part of the beta test for that release, i will say that there was much jumping up and down behind the scenes about the apparent lack of 'features'. like tom i also felt it was a damp squib. but on using it more and more it became clear that hundreds of usability enhancements added up to one very, very powerful new feature: productivity. it's all in the marketing i guess. and graphisoft's marketing department is appalling at the best of times, so there was no way they were ever going to sell 'productivity' in a way that appealed to people like yourself . . .

About lightworks ( if i want a good rendering engine, i use a deticaded one with much superior results)

so do many people. but those who want to get good quality presentation images out without investing in the time, training and overhead of a completely different product will find 'lightworks' a huge asset.

So lets hope v10 would have more features that v8 brought us and the stability that v9 has.

whatever it brings, it's not going to please 100% of the user base. apparently you got unlucky last time. chances are somebody else is going to get unlucky next time. it could be me. and we could all spend our life yo-yo-ing from this software to that software and back again couldn't we? wouldn't that be productive . . .

~/archiben

[Rob]

It will be interesting to see what R10 brings but my feeling is that if they have anything less that a fundamental paradigm shift up their sleeve, their goose is cooked.

Well, I do feel it the same way for some reason (reading posts above) and especially after releasing v9 which is ok (and I do not see it as tragic as our friend oreopoulos does) but perhaps I am starting to understand what you meant. V9 just doesn't have that drive that makes you go like oooh that's good. It's more like oh god finally they've put it there.

yes, on the second thought you were right, it did lose its momentum and V10 will be a decisive one and if they screw up AC will become just a clunky dinosaur, big time.