Most compatible conflict checking program with ArchiCAD

[Anonymous]

I've just started some research in searching for which "conflict-checking" program or add-on would be most compatible with ArchiCAD?

I've noticed that Solibri provides a conflict checking program for the IFC models in addition to its Solibri Model Viewer. I do not know much of this at the moment, but wanted to check in and see if anyone else has done any kind of "conflict-checking" with their ArchiCAD BIM model.

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Matti wrote:

Matthew wrote:
Solibri works very well with ArchiCAD IFCs so it probably rates as the most compatible, especially since IFC export from AC13 seems to be significantly improved (I am just getting around to serious testing right now). The main drawback is that IFC export can be quite slow and the files quite large. On the plus side Solibri offer much that Navis does not.

Solibri provides also a direct link between ArchiCAD and Solibri Model Checker as an ArchiCAD plugin. The user can send model to Solibri without exporting an IFC file. It is faster than ArchiCAD IFC export and the user can also transfer selections between Solibri and ArchiCAD. AC11/12/13 for Windows and Mac is supported in the latest plugin release.

How is it I was unaware of this? Thanks for the heads up. It was a bit of a trick to find the add-ons to download from your site, but I have them installed now and look forward to trying out the link. Now if only I had a copy of Tekla...

[Anonymous]

Matti wrote:
Solibri provides also a direct link between ArchiCAD and Solibri Model Checker as an ArchiCAD plugin.

This is BRILLIANT! I just exported a sizable model (one floor of a large hospital) and it took about three minutes. This beats Revit to Navis all hollow. I'm going to have fun with this.

[Anonymous]

Matti wrote:

Matthew wrote:
Solibri works very well with ArchiCAD IFCs so it probably rates as the most compatible, especially since IFC export from AC13 seems to be significantly improved (I am just getting around to serious testing right now). The main drawback is that IFC export can be quite slow and the files quite large. On the plus side Solibri offer much that Navis does not.

Solibri provides also a direct link between ArchiCAD and Solibri Model Checker as an ArchiCAD plugin. The user can send model to Solibri without exporting an IFC file. It is faster than ArchiCAD IFC export and the user can also transfer selections between Solibri and ArchiCAD. AC11/12/13 for Windows and Mac is supported in the latest plugin release.

I guess I'm blind, but I cannot find the plugins for download on the site. I found them in the Solibri 5.1 Folder, but they don't have the plugin for 13 there.

[Karl Ottenstein]

I'm curious - is there no inexpensive conflict detection option out there? (One that just shows clashes, such as the MEP add-on does for MEP elements.)

I've never tried Solibri, wanting to save the 'free trial' for some time when I might actually need it. Searching the US resellers, none list a price - but the AECBytes review here:
http://www.aecbytes.com/review/2009/SolibriModelChecker.html

shows $6,000. Pretty big chunk of change if you just want the clash detection feature. Imagine Navisworks isn't particularly cheap either?

Also... I thought Revit had clash detection built in?

Thanks,
Karl

[Anonymous]

Karl wrote:
I'm curious - is there no inexpensive conflict detection option out there? (One that just shows clashes, such as the MEP add-on does for MEP elements.)

There's no cheap solution for automatic clash detection as far as I know, but then I really think this is an overrated function. I have been doing coordination on very large projects for over two years now and have rarely used the clash detection. This is also true for my colleagues. Every so often we'll run a clash but mostly we just zoom into the tight spots and sort it out by eye.

I've never tried Solibri, wanting to save the 'free trial' for some time when I might actually need it. Searching the US resellers, none list a price - but the AECBytes review here:
http://www.aecbytes.com/review/2009/SolibriModelChecker.html

shows $6,000. Pretty big chunk of change if you just want the clash detection feature. Imagine Navisworks isn't particularly cheap either?

Navis pricing has changed since the Autodesk takeover. There are a wide range of prices depending on functionality. Like Solibri there is a free viewer. As I recall the full package with all the bells and whistles is about $15,000. These are considered very vertical market programs primarily targeted at projects over $100 million. This pretty much locks in five figure pricing.

Also... I thought Revit had clash detection built in?

Not that I've heard. I'll have to take a look.

[TomWaltz]

Matthew wrote:

Also... I thought Revit had clash detection built in?

Not that I've heard. I'll have to take a look.

Yes, it does. Since 2008 or so, I think. It's nowhere near as nice as Navis' though.

I can see doing visual collision detection on something small like a house, but on anything of any size, it makes about as much sense as adding up numbers in a spreadsheet by hand. If you have a high end tool that can help locate problems, it seems irresponsible not to use it. It's one thing if it's out of your price range, but it's quite another if you have it and choose not to use it.

I've yet to see any kind of clash detection or BIM assembly software that is cheap. They tend to cost quite a bit, but have proven their value many, many, many times over here.

$15K is a lot. It's still cheaper than any lawsuit and even some change orders.

[Anonymous]

TomWaltz wrote:

Matthew wrote:

Also... I thought Revit had clash detection built in?

Not that I've heard. I'll have to take a look.

Yes, it does. Since 2008 or so, I think. It's nowhere near as nice as Navis' though.

Cool, I'll have to check it out.

I can see doing visual collision detection on something small like a house, but on anything of any size, it makes about as much sense as adding up numbers in a spreadsheet by hand. If you have a high end tool that can help locate problems, it seems irresponsible not to use it. It's one thing if it's out of your price range, but it's quite another if you have it and choose not to use it.

Am I wrong to feel a bit insulted here? It seems you are calling me and my colleagues irresponsible. Have you actually done construction coordination on large projects? Of course we do use clash detection occasionally. It just doesn't turn out to be as useful as you might expect. Not that I would want to lose the function. It is handy sometimes.

I've yet to see any kind of clash detection or BIM assembly software that is cheap. They tend to cost quite a bit, but have proven their value many, many, many times over here.

$15K is a lot. It's still cheaper than any lawsuit and even some change orders.

Cheaper than most change orders on hospitals and large institutional projects. It almost seems that anything under that is hardly worth the bother. Heck, we can easily spend a few grand just figuring out how to fix a problem let alone doing the actual work.

[Karl Ottenstein]

Thanks, Matthew and Tom. Interesting.

[Anonymous]

Michael wrote:

I guess I'm blind, but I cannot find the plugins for download on the site. I found them in the Solibri 5.1 Folder, but they don't have the plugin for 13 there.

To download the latest release of the ArchiCAD 11/12/13 plugin, please login to the Solibri Customer Support Site. You can find the plugin package from the Extension section.

Karl wrote:

shows $6,000. Pretty big chunk of change if you just want the clash detection feature. Imagine Navisworks isn't particularly cheap either?

One bad clash can be easily a worth of $6,000. It is reality that in the clash check with HVAC models you can find plenty of them.

People often compare Navis and Solibri Model Checker because the both sofware have clash detection. Clash detection is important, but there is many other things to take care if you want to assure good quality of a BIM model.

Solibri Model Checker is rule based model checking software. The clash detection is just one of the Solibri Model Checker rules. Solibri Model Checker has plenty of pre-configured rules in form of rule sets. User can also create own rule sets by using the rule templates and own parameters. There is almost unlimited amount of different things that user can check from a BIM model.
Here is few examples:
- Check the conformity between Architectural and Structural models
- Find the differences between two revisions of the same model
- Check that properties of component like wall have acceptable values
- Check that each room has space for wheelchair

[TomWaltz]

Matthew wrote:

I can see doing visual collision detection on something small like a house, but on anything of any size, it makes about as much sense as adding up numbers in a spreadsheet by hand. If you have a high end tool that can help locate problems, it seems irresponsible not to use it. It's one thing if it's out of your price range, but it's quite another if you have it and choose not to use it.

Am I wrong to feel a bit insulted here? It seems you are calling me and my colleagues irresponsible. Have you actually done construction coordination on large projects? Of course we do use clash detection occasionally. It just doesn't turn out to be as useful as you might expect. Not that I would want to lose the function. It is handy sometimes.

You guys have known me long enough. If you have to question whether I'm insulting you, I'm not. If I've insulted you, you'll KNOW it 😉

I have used clash detection on large and small projects and found it extremely useful. There are a couple caveats though.

The more that is modeled, the more useful it is. If the architects are doing full 3D and the engineers aren't, then the value drops significantly. Checking architecture against itself isn't really that exciting.

If the engineers are doing full 3D, we actually have to do collisions against specific sets of elements just to keep them manageable. We start getting every time a pipe goes through a non-rated non-bearing partition above a ceiling and no one cares about that.

Structure and HVAC are usually the two major ones, since they have the biggest elements that get in each others' way. Plumbing can be a big one too, since the larger sloping pipes can get in the way too.

Revit's collision detection is pretty basic. Navis is lot better about it, since it allows you to specifically tell it to, for example, structure against HVAC, and check for anything that comes within 1" of each other (allowing for hangers, insulation, etc). Navis then gives you a screenshot of each collision and the element IDs of each element related to it so you can find it in its original software.

I've always wanted to dig into Solibri but haven't had the opportunity yet.

Navis (or any similar software) is one of those things that fits into "BIM is a change in process, not just in software." Anyone treating BIM like a new-fangled CAD program probably won't want to fit model-based coordination into their workflow.

A few Navis checks early in the process can head off problems that normally wouldn't be found until CDs when it takes a lot more work to fix. I've seen the best results when the project team holds regular coordination meetings, say once a month, just to talk about conflicts in the model (usually the result of trading models the week before and someone ran the collected models through Navis). When you have all the engineers in the room to talk about a solution, it usually yields a much better result than a string of emails and letters and sketches back and forth.

I wouldn't say that Navis replaces professional judgment or that it should be the only way that professionals coordinate multi-displine projects. It is simply a tool that can significantly speed up the process and maybe catch a few problems that would have been missed otherwise, which is part of what BIM is all about.