BIM and too much detail
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2010-07-05
02:04 PM
- last edited on
2023-05-30
12:24 PM
by
Rubia Torres
An independent technician working from our office, using Microstation as a 2D drafting tool, produces full working drawings for small projects such as houses in a few days. Of course, things are not as well resolved but information is more than adequate for contruction purposes, and the quotes he gets from contractors are much lower than ours for similar sized projects.
I understand that resolution of every miniscule item might be necessary for large developer driven projects where profit and avoidance of liabilty are the main considerations. However, for small and medium jobs ........?
Any opinions on this?
cornelis wegman architects
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2010-07-05 02:59 PM
1. A lower Bidding cost due to lack of information will usually result in more change orders and greater cost during construction.
2. A higher cost during bidding due to more complete information in the construction drawings results in less change orders and maintaining the bid cost.
----
In scenario 1 the contractor lowballs it because he knows he can make up the profit during construction when it is more difficult or impossible to change contractors or stop the project.
If you want to lower the cost of #2 meet with the contractor after bidding to see were you can lower costs before construction starts.
You are assuming that the bidding price is the final construction price. It is better to compare the percentage of change orders between the projects and check the final cost of the building, as a percentage you want this to be as low as possible and you might be surprised. In scenario #1 you might want to also check the amount of documentation produced during construction to fill in what was not designed and drawn during the preparation of the construction documents. IMO it is more attractive to clients to be able to demonstrate that your estimates and the final cost of construction is within a reasonable number ±5%.
The other error is that you are assuming that the contractor is quoting higher because he thinks the project is more complicated might it not be possible that he is quoting higher because he has all the information he needs?
BTW this is not a BIM vs 2D issue, we used to have this argument at the office I worked pre-computers also.
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2010-07-06 12:56 PM
Ideally we would have enough scope to resolve everything on 'the drawing board', but in reality this rarely happens.The comment 'the devil lies in the detail' is a very true one.
Also the surprises that come up during construction are not always negative ones. The process of building and working together with a contractor can be synergistic.
I suppose it comes down to appropriately pricing a job at the start so that you allow enough fee to provide adequate documentation to get the project out of the ground, but also making your client fully aware that they require your services during construction to make sure the intention of your design is carried out by the contractor.
For smaller projects, once again, I find it really important to communicate a 'this for that' arrangement. For example, you will get plans that will get you to a certain stage eg: achieving council approvals and then give a clear indication of what else you can provide subsequently and what your fee/hourly rates will be for these additional services.
Regardless of whether you are in BIM or 2d, a coherent set of drawings is an asset to your client.
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2010-07-07 01:25 AM
The problem is (in my case at least) the user - it is both fun and satisfing to build a detailed 3D model and hard not to use the information created in the final documentation. Maybe the answer is more self-discipline!
cornelis wegman architects
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2010-07-07 11:58 AM
another way to take advantage of this excess of accuracy without getting an increased quotation from the contractors, if ever self discipline does not work, would simply be not to provide all the material you have done. What if you were still doing the same amount of work, but were keeping a part of the details, providing only the usual necessary set? You could keep this excess of information for later stages, staying ahead ready to provide more. It could be a kind of freedom you keep for the benefit of your office.
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2010-07-07 09:18 PM
It sounds like you are in residential design? Most building methods in residential design is not rocket science, and helps to expedite drawing production cycles, in my opinion. On the other hand, what I have found is in producing the quality of documentation that Archicad is capable of, will set you head and shoulders above most of your competition, bringing in bigger budget jobs hopefully, and allowing you to charge full dollar for your services and expertise.
Just my two cents.
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2010-08-25 05:48 AM
I agree with Til, the level of detail shown is your choice. I keep a layer for sections that I want to see but will probably never show anyone.
As far as too much detail on small jobs, what about working with plain jane elements, de-BIM it a little, i.e. no composites (or very simple ones) for walls, slabs nor roofs. Then your sections can add back in any detail level you want. And you still get all the error checking inherent in having built a good model. After all, the Microstation guy you mention, probably is drawing a wall with just two lines for the plan, or maybe a third line for brick veneer etc.
I have to say though, regardless of presentation or documentation requirements, a good model helps me sleep at night. Plus, as you mention, it's fun.
Snap
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2010-09-21 09:46 AM
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2010-09-21 09:48 AM
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2010-10-28 03:43 PM
And this doesn't even account for all the headaches and embarrassment saved when I've missed a few incorrect detail tags during drawing coordination review.