Detail markers in ArchiCAD22 - bug?

[Paul King]

I am attempting to place GS detail markers with marker polygon that has curved corners (as is possible with the standard GS marker for AC21)

I am finding what actually happens is the clipping plane polygon shows the curved corners I gave it, but the marker polygon actually displayed in the placed drawing shows instead a 45 degree chamfer.
Also the selected pen of the marker polygon is ignored, even though line type selected does respond correctly

Is this a known bug, and were the beta testers asleep that day? Or am I just missing something?

[Paul King]

To partially answer my own question, a way to somewhat achieve desired result is by using another marker (Detail Marker 01 22) rather than the built in marker. This alternative unfortunately does not seem to allow user control of marker polygon pen weight, and in fact the line pen parameters that are offered for other aspects do not actually work - so another apparent quality control issue.

I also think the built in marker should behave more intuitively - whether by not allowing rounded corners in the clipping polygon, or by allowing the marker polygon to match the clipping polygon rather than chamfering corners instead - and obviously rectify the pen parameter disfunction already noted.

[Daniel Kovacs]

Hello,

For ARCHICAD 22 the way Markers and Marker texts work has been redesigned to make it simpler. Now the built-in marker has very basic functionality, and filleting/chamfering is done by Detail Marker 01.

As you have already noticed, filleting the corners is possible with Detail Marker 01 now, the same way it was in ARCHICAD 21 (use the Filleted Clip Polygon or the Boundary Shape cloud). The fact that these shapes can't follow the curvature of the polygon you draw is not new, the same was true for the ARCHICAD 21 polygon too, but I still think it is not OK, that it let's you draw a curve but it can't handle it (if it can't handle it, maybe it shouldn't even offer that option when drawing the polygon). I let the Designers know about this, so they can rethink this idea.

As for the pen colours, they can be controlled separately for each part of the Marker from the "2D Representation..." tab, just make sure that the "Uniform Marker Pen" option is not active.

Regards,

[Paul King]

Hi thanks for your response.

Unfortunately, even with Detail Marker 01, and with uniform marker pen switched off, I can find no way to individually control the marker 'cloud' pen, and marker 'reference line' pen - they just follow the marker 'head' pen, which result is rather crude looking.

In the offices I have worked in, the head is nearly always required to be in a heavy pen, division and reference lines both use a light pen, and the 'cloud' is another heavy pen.

I am seeing users abandoning proper ArchiCAD detail markers in favour of manually drawn makers, because (among other things) they think this is the only way to comply with company graphical standards (crazy, I know).

Other, stronger reasons include a preference for drawing all project details on a single worksheet , divided up into a layout sized grid,

Slight change of subject, but I think the detail tool paradigm needs to be extended to support this workflow, because it is undeniably a much, much faster and easier way to produce a lot of 2D details quickly

Copy and paste and alignment between drawing elements (text, etc) within each 'page' in the worksheet grid can all be instantly aligned from one detail to the next right across and down the sheet, without all the wasted time flipping forwards backwards between details and the layout, and because global edits can be accomplished in one place, also without flipping between views..

I have yet to encounter anyone who has persisted with the 'official' individual detail window approach, simply because the graphical appearance and time sacrifices that way are just too great.

I think there should be a user placed 'detail referencing polygon' object placed around each detail on a worksheet, linked to the final drawing title and source detail marker that way, rather than requiring each detail in a separate view?

The current referencing workaround for those drawing all details on one worksheet involves placing multiple clipped copies from the same worksheet on layout, so that each can be recognized as a referencable drawing, takes a lot longer, confuses most users, and doesn't work with back referencing - so again, a lot of users have just given up and manually type in references in their manual detail markers ..... Also, the working out of all details on one worksheet just works far better conceptually (not better for ArchiCAD, but better for the user who wants to think about and try ways to put a building together in a rapid and fluid way, not burdened with the extra effort and logistics required to compartmentalise the detailing into separate views). Yet another benefit lies in the ability to copy detail markers across the source view so that the size and shape of each marker remains consistent. Currently, each marker has to be separately defined from scratch for a separate detail view to be created, so a lot of extra mouse clicks are required to then stretch each new cloud and marker head into conformity with the rest.

But this is a very, very old wish, with apparently no sympathy or support at GSHQ.

[Anonymous]

We noticed the same problem with the 22 Detail markers. We switched back to using the 21 Detail Marker until they fix the problem with the chamfered corners and line weights.

[Erwin Edel]

Off track a bit, but have you considered Independent Details that can be referenced with a linked marker?

I find the whole detail marker defining what you get in your detail falls apart when I want to show a bit more by using some break lines.

This is coming from mostly large residential single home projects though which at max will have 30 details or so, so might be a wholly different scope of what you are dealing with.

We also indicate about 90% of our details in elevation with just a single line showing where the 'cut' is made.

[Daniel Kovacs]

LBCrockett wrote:
We noticed the same problem with the 22 Detail markers. We switched back to using the 21 Detail Marker until they fix the problem with the chamfered corners and line weights.

Hi,

It seems liek a feature loss for sure, so I recorded the error of the pen colors in our system (error #253757), in addition to the report about the filleted/chamfered corners. Using the AC21 Markers is a good way to avoid this problem in the meantime, though you can still make a Marker with filleted corners using the 'Detail Marker 01 22' Marker (though the leader would still have the Marker Head's pen).

Regards,

[Geof Gainer]

Appears to be the same in AC23. I'm reverting to the old version till this is fixed.

[Ghaleb Khadra]

Geof wrote:
Appears to be the same in AC23. I'm reverting to the old version till this is fixed.

Hi Geof,

Are you referring to the ability to control the Pen of the Reference Line of the detail marker? If not, would you please clarify the issue here so that I can look into it?

Thank you very much in advance!

Kind regards,
Ghaleb

[Paul King]

Reference line definitely needs to be separately controllable from marker outline, and marker dividing line, and detail area polygon line,

Ideally we also need a symbolic polygon area substitute for when the detail is actually at right angles to the view where marker is placed (i.e is a section detail) - this could simply be a solid filled capsule shape as shown. Also a triangle on reference head marker is essential to show direction the detail section is facing.

See attached - red arrows denote requirement for a separate pen/line type from all others

This is all very basic detail drawing referencing graphical stuff that ArchiCAD still can't do, that any first year architecture student requires. I am a freelancer, and cannot think of a single practice I have worked for that does not need this - and right now the only way is to manually draw or kludge each detail marker