Next phase of subscription transition announced

[Richard Doll]

Dear Community Members, 

Following my recent Graphisoft Insights post on the Subscription transition update, we know how important this topic is for you as our clients and anticipate your comments and questions. To streamline communication, we’ve created this thread to gather everything in one place. We’ll also use it to identify topics that may need further clarification, which we’ll address on our FAQ page.

Please note that while we cannot respond to individual questions in the forum, your local representative is available for personalized support.

Best regards,
Richard

Link to Insights article: https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Graphisoft-Insights/Important-update-Next-phase-of-subscription-...

[jl_lt]

although saying "catering" would mean they actually delivered something of quality to those being catered, which is clearly not the case.   

my breaking point came when i naively tried to play Graphisofts game and asked them to share with us promotional material that highlighted the structural functionality and how engineers would benefit from using Archicad (and collaborating, with, God forbids, architects!). That way we could directly show it to them and they might be interested.  We even had already made an appointment with one of our engineers.

Graphisoft answer (not verbatim): "we dont have that kind of promotional material".

But now that we are at it, enthomologists could really benefit from a point-cloud archicad model of an ant colony.

[mthd]

Can you be a bit more specific about your collaboration methods that you are considering with your specific type of engineers ? Clearly a structural engineer wouldn’t be using Archicad as their main solution, it is simply not built for that sole purpose not even for MEP engineering. I don’t know very much about DDSCAD but that would be more specific for MEP engineering. To me as long as Archicad can exchange 3D models well with these other disciplines then that is what should matter the most.

[jl_lt]

 As far as i understand it, the intended structural Archicad models allows or promises to allow the engineers to extract mathematical info from the architectural project (nodes and forces) that they could readily analize with their software, and bring back that info to the core 3d model. Thus collaboration!    Please, someone correct me if im wrong about this. So far, i havent seen any real world examples of this relatively new workflow.

Our current workflow with engineers still is a painful iterative process in which every discipline tries to outdo the others and have it their way, without much regard to the architectural proposal. That is, until they see the 3d model and then suddenly everyone gets it, but even then,  they still dont comply.   Still, we tried to do everything we could to get those people out of 2d cad, but they just want to stay there.

"look for other engineers" you say.  yes!  but we love our engineers so much!  in a mashochistic kind of way of course.

As for Archicad not being suited for engineers, apparently thats what Graphisoft has been pushing for the last 5 years or so

[mthd]

@jl_lt True many older engineers are still sticking to 2D CAD workflows because that’s what they have learned and as we all know they have used that technology extensively.

I haven't yet received any requests to share a 3D model with any of my consultants, only 2D/DWG with Engineers, Builders and Surveyors. Mind you, I only do low rise residential projects. I am aware that Tekla is used extensively in Europe for engineering residential structures. And Revit is also widely used in the US and is the go to product in that region.

It’s the old adage “A Jack of all trades and a master of none”, I would like Archicad to become the “The Master of Architecture” and focus on that. The go to product and as long as the 3D model is accurate as possible when sharing with other main engineering applications.

That really should be the priority for Graphisoft and partners. Simple as that.

[Erik Bjornhage]

In Sweden (and overall in the Nordic region) most structural engineers are using Revit or possibly Tekla.

The Structural Analytical Model is an interesting concept that could make some real difference - if we were ever asked to provide one!?

I'm not sure if the SAM is compatible with any kind of analytical work flow inside Revit (if that is even a thing) or any other software package. Regardless, it's an interesting function that could be valuable - if anyone knew how to use it.

[Ernest Atanasiu]

Let's not murder them already, the product itself has a track record of a strong and reliable tool, it competes on all categories with everything that is on the market. It has flaws, it needs improvement here and there, sure. 

The subcription-only model is flawed in many ways, I agree . Speaking as a company, we could not afford switching right now to something else and that is the main anger point. On top of that, communication for this particular subject is annoyingly deffective through their resellers and distributors. 

But hey, if nothing else works, we could pull it off just by using a perpetual license stuck in v30 or whatever. We might not be competitive in 10 years, sure, but that is a problem for future me 🙂

[stoneunturned]

We share IFC models with our structural engineers (who use Revit) routinely. For all intents and purposes, it works very well.

Ernest, Archicad almost has good solutions for each problem and workflow, but it simply doesnt. It has half baked ideas that leave you searching for a hack, or simply accepting that you have to do it the dumb manual way. There is no way the update process should take as long as it does when the unreal engine can almost simulate life; the tools that look so promising when you start using them, only let you down just before the finish line and you find that youve wasted extremely valuable time on a false promise, and that -in some cases- have to start again, or do something extremely repetitive and laborious to get your task over the line. And then you go online or to your reseller and waste even more valuable time trying to improve the situation with wishes and posts like tis one etc... only for it all to fall on deaf ears, and you get none of that time back.

Im not changing software because i dont have it in me to learn a new ecosphere, but i cant stand using this laborious and underperforming software either. I dont want to be an architect anymore because of this software. But i dont have anything else so i may as well go on. And if i have to go on with this crud, im gonna scream and shout with profanity until someone realises that the user base is hurting. My guess is that only dwindling perpetual licenses or subscriptions will enact that change by which time i'll be off on the Caribbean from having successfully sold enough feet pics.

Some of us are the judge, the jury and the excursioner (read: the architect, the drafty and the IT specialist). I probably wouldnt understand if i had a team of drafty's doing the leg work, but im not disconnected like that. Im painfully aware of archicad's shortcomings, and exhaustingly exasperated at how @Richard Doll  and co arent even aware of what needs to be fixed. I dont even care about the topic of this thread, there is much bigger fish to fry before any of this [additional] nonsense is necessary to consider. All i want to do is get through my work day and enjoy what i do. Multitudes of inefficiencies present as physical pain to me, and most architects are that way inclined.

I think GS are in over their heads, i dont know that they'll ever be able to know what to listen to. So far the ideas generation at the top of the hierarchy is akin to me playing a game of darts (im terrible).

[Ernest Atanasiu]

I don't disagree, half-baked solutions are everywhere and I get the feeling that ADHD is a requirement for a job at GS. If you show them a glittery new  keynote they forget about Curtain Wall tool and never finish it. 
Let's hope that the new wishlist will point them in the right direction and show them what the users' priorities actually are. 

[mthd]

In reality the Graphisoft department must wake up properly to these smelling salts above. Do the heavy lifting with the direct architectural tools right inside Archicad first. That old roadmap and ideas pool is the exact place to start doing the heavy lifting from. We will all be watching the progress from the sidelines in the next 5 to 10 years. We all hope that the subscription money is well spent on developing the architectural tools further and to bring them all up into the 21st Century. Otherwise Archicad could become a dinosaur like AutoCAD 2D has become.

[Erik Bjornhage]

@Richard Doll 
The FAQ states the following:

16. Can subscription licenses be used as network (floating) licenses or offline licenses?

Graphisoft’s subscription products run using modern “cloud licensing” technology. Thus, licenses can be freely assigned to individuals using the Graphisoft license management portal. As an additional benefit, Archicad Collaborate subscription customers can also assign their licenses to a group of users as a license pool, where users can fetch these licenses on a first-come-first-serve basis. Users can also go offline with named cloud licenses for up to 7 days.

Could you please clarify that this, in fact, means that assigning licenses to a user group who in turn get their licenses from a licence pool (i.e. multi-user) - is only available under the Collaborate subscription. What follows is that any client that opts for the Studio subscription will then be forced to use assigned Named licenses - as in NOT multi-user or network licenses?

This would also indicate a shift in how Graphisoft handles liceses and will have big financial implications for many of your users.

[Jp1138]

That would mean that the path that has taken Autodesk years to complete, Graphisoft wants to runs through in a few months... Not a nice perspective for every user and more reason to not trust this management by subscribing...

[MinhNguyen]

I don't think this is restricted to Archicad Collaborate. As stated here, if you have an Archicad subscription cloud license (meaning any subscription that provides cloud licenses as I understand), you should be able to use floating licenses function. As of now, only Archicad Collaborate package is available (and Studio was announced not too long ago), therefore I suspect the FAQ was created when GS had just come up with the name Collaborate. Nevertheless, I would suggest talking directly to the local support as they should know whether Archicad Studio provides this feature for sure

[Erik Bjornhage]

@MinhNguyen - it does fairly clearly state that:

"As an additional benefit, Archicad Collaborate subscription customers can also assign their licenses to a group of users as a license pool..."

- indicating that this additional benefit (group assignment to a licencing pool) is Collaborate only.

Again, very unclear communication with only two months left to go before one of the cut-off dates.

[laembert]

Please explain. In case I convert and in the future I will end subscription, which version will I end up with? If there is significant difference between conversion in 2024 and 2025, how it is possible we still do not have EXACT informations from local dealers?? 

GS FAQ

10. What are the options for customers converting in 2024 when their conversion period is over?

For customers converting in 2024, converted subscriptions will be renewed at the standard subscription list price after their maximum 3+3-year or 1+1+1-year conversion terms run out. Alternatively, customers may choose to fall back onto the perpetual path with their licenses. In such cases, their perpetual licenses will be upgraded to the then most up-to-date perpetual software – albeit without the SSA/Forward coverage going forward.

11. What are the options for customers converting in 2025 when their conversion period is over?

For customers converting in 2025, converted subscriptions will be renewed at a price adjusted with a similar magnitude price increase % as guaranteed until 2028 but without an exact % guarantee in the future. Customers may choose to fall back onto the perpetual path with their licenses during 2025-2028. In such cases, their perpetual licenses will be reset to the Archicad version they converted from subscription in the first place – albeit without the SSA/Forward coverage going forward.

[Karl Ottenstein]

This totally strange (to me!) policy was confirmed to us, making conversion in 2025 less valuable than converting this year.

Archicad 30 in 2 years will be the last permanent license version.   Someone converting this year who later cancels after 30 has been released will get 30.  Someone converting next year, when they own just 28 let’s say, who cancels any time in the future …even long after 30 has been released… will not get 30 but will roll back to 28.   My opinion is that this is not just confusing for we customers… but utterly stupid on the part of Graphisoft as it further erodes customer loyalty (however much is left at this point).