Next phase of subscription transition announced

[Richard Doll]

Dear Community Members, 

Following my recent Graphisoft Insights post on the Subscription transition update, we know how important this topic is for you as our clients and anticipate your comments and questions. To streamline communication, we’ve created this thread to gather everything in one place. We’ll also use it to identify topics that may need further clarification, which we’ll address on our FAQ page.

Please note that while we cannot respond to individual questions in the forum, your local representative is available for personalized support.

Best regards,
Richard

Link to Insights article: https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Graphisoft-Insights/Important-update-Next-phase-of-subscription-...

[mthd]

@Bricklyne Clarence Wrote: “I'm talking about an improved or more robust, Door tool, Window Tool, Slab, Wall, Roof......for crying out loud these things are NATIVE and foundational to architecture.” 

I totally agree with you but what specific improvements are you suggesting for these tools, can you elaborate by making some wishes in this regard to benefit all of us ? I wouldn’t waste my intelligence on writing and complaining too much here becuase if we want to get through to them we need to make constructive wishes. Use diagrams and explain ourselves clearly as to what we really need and want in these already existing architectural element tools.

We all need to use our intellectual abilities to find constructive ways to improve the basic functionality of this program. Too many unnecessary bells and whistles is not really the way forward. Just because everyone is going AI crazy doesn’t mean we need to make a song and dance about it. It doesn’t even work properly yet anyway. We all got better things to do with our valuable time.

[jl_lt]

well, we are currently working on a house without doors, so that we dont have to use the tool 😂.   

But yeah, hope they make some improvements on the basics, as i really dont buy that its that hard, or at least multi-decade-long hard to improve the tools. Consistency, coherence and visual display on different floors would be a nice start. 

eventhough for us, the real bottlenecks occurs not with the basic tools but with dimensioning which needs a total revamp from its very conceptual foundation.

[Bricklyne Clarence]

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@mthd wrote:

@Bricklyne Clarence Wrote: “I'm talking about an improved or more robust, Door tool, Window Tool, Slab, Wall, Roof......for crying out loud these things are NATIVE and foundational to architecture.” 

I totally agree with you but what specific improvements are you suggesting for these tools, can you elaborate by making some wishes in this regard to benefit all of us ? I wouldn’t waste my intelligence on writing and complaining too much here becuase if we want to get through to them we need to make constructive wishes. Use diagrams and explain ourselves clearly as to what we really need and want in these already existing architectural element tools.

....

---

I would ask, 'to what end' ....should I do this.....not so much to be dismissive of you, but rather because it's rather clear that the folks at Graphisoft don't read these comment sections.

Once upon a time it was mentioned that they do read comments which are collated and forwarded to them. Which to my understanding meant that someone curated which comments they should read, on the one hand, while they winnowed out which ones they thought were a waste of time, on the other. And those considered worthwhile were then forwarded to them. But who makes those decisions? That much wasn't made clear. Nor was it clarified to what degree whomever was doing the collating's personal opinion or feelings of the person posting a specific comment influenced or played a role as to whether said comment actually made it to their eyes (or ears).
Given how critical I've been of them over the years, I have no doubt that most of my comments and suggestions have gone by the wayside and into the wastepaper basket.

In any case, there ALREADY does exist (or existed) a system through which we could let them know our ideas and WISHES regarding what we felt were necessary improvements to the program.
The name describes it, and until they tossed out decades worth of useful wishes in their "spring-cleaning" of it (The Wishlist Section) a little over a year ago and came up with their revamped "Wishlist", one could have found a wellspring of great ideas in them to use as a jump-off point for improving program tools.

If you could go back to that old Wishlist forum and section, you'd find a plethora of great ideas and suggestions for improving all those tools I mentioned and listed above- before they "revamped" it and decided they didn't want the world seeing what they were perfectly happy ignoring.

Unfortunately from where we stand today, with what they've done to it (the Wishlist section) - by making it exclusive for commenting and voting only to Subscription users and locking out anyone else still on the fence on a perpetual license (despite however many decades of investment they may have had into the program - both monetary and participatory), and also placing a bunch of wishes that did make it through the 'spring-cleaning' and which had a lot of votes and support for development, into "On Hold" status, .....it now seems like it was all just PR window-dressing and (more) lip service.

And that they were never really serious about actually addressing any wishes or engaging with users seriously.

We're back to where we started where, we may make or propose wishes as to what we want improved, put a lot of effort into elaborately explaining how they might work, have those wishes gain a lot of support in the form of votes,.....only for Graphisoft folks to decide they don't want to do it anyway, or aren't going to do it, and then place it "On Hold" without explanation, ....or with as illogical an explanation as they feel for why they're doing so.

Take a look at their (also revamped) Roadmap.
It bears almost no connection to the Wishlist section and yet the two are supposed to be connected in the sense that we ought to at least see some ideas from the latter permeating into the former.

This is how we end up with what seems like an upcoming version that's going to be more of the same of what's caused a lot of anger in recent years and recent versions, and also which, as I've stated several times, indicates that NOTHING we're saying here sinks in or gets through to them.

Even after all the brouhaha of a couple of years ago when they proclaimed to make more of a commitment to be more engaging and responsive to users,.....

This is why it might look like we may not want to put the effort into elaborately explaining how we think these things should be improved because at the end of the day it very well likely will be wasted effort.

If Graphisoft are going to so blatantly and openly ignore us, then fine.
But at least make the pretense like you're actually going to address things in the program (whether by your own cognizance and without our input) that pertain to what we actually use the program for.

At least pay us that much respect if you're going to force people to fork out money year-after-year in subscription fees with the expection that they're getting a decent or fair return on their investment.

Sorry for the long rant.

[mthd]

I think many of us understand those things you mentioned above and it can make us feel like not wanting to make any wishes again. Yes some of us cannot even make a wish becuase of not having the latest version.

I am just saying, when we have intelligent experienced users like yourself, we shouldn’t give up on trying to show how we would like the software to improve for all of us. Even if some of it falls on deaf ears at times. 

Different management brings a different system these days. We should use our intelligence to attempt to improve the software because AI will just make a mess of it for now.

[qbic-ft]

I believe existing clients should have the option to choose. I was an Autodesk client for many years, and when they pushed me into subscription, that’s when I switched to Archicad. A perpetual license is something we all paid full price for—it’s like buying a house, and then having the developer come back and say, “Now you’re going to rent what you already own.”

For new clients, subscription makes sense. But for existing clients, keeping the option of Perpetual + SSA or subscription would be the fairest approach

[mthd]

It is more like, you own the house but you are not permitted to improve it in order to add value to your significant investment. Then when it reaches a certain age, you would normally be required to demolish it. Not fair or in anyone’s future interests. 

Graphisoft please turn back from going down the path of Autodesk like others have done. Have both options available as originally intended or keep perpetual licensing to be fully upgradable.

[jl_lt]

actually its more like: you own the house (a nice solid brickwall house), but they own the keys. They will first lock up one room, then another one, then the bathroom. you still own the house, but eventually you cannot enter any room.  you cannot get your clothes out. the photos you had hanging in the wall are locked in those rooms. 

they will eventually also cut the house off the electric grid. forget about running water.

you will be left with that big old house that you own but you cant use nor sell, alone in the darkness of a small, rotting porch. There are new houses in the neighborhood but just rentals; smaller and more expensive ; by the time you accept reality and dare to go out looking for another one, it might be a day or two too late.

But one can always tear the house down.

[mthd]

Yeah ! That’s about the size of it. You really are getting down to the nitty gritty of all these unfair changes that we are experiencing with forced timed out software. 

[MatteoDes]

@Richard Doll 

Considering the previous messages from other users, maybe it’s time to reconsider the way Graphisoft treat his customers.

[Marcel Cooper]

To me as a user, Graphisoft feels as if it has lost its way - my principles complaints are:

- for several years, I have found and reported numerous glitches which are never resolved and while I always seem to be able to find a workaround, it should work as intended

- with many of the object, there is inconsistency in their parameters - compare doors and windows, similar though they are, there are irritating "trip you up" differences & kitchen units are pretty awful

- the new stair maker is great in a demonstration, but a proper pig when trying to make a staircase for a tight house plan

- support (at least in the UK) has been cut from 9am to noon. No problem if your problem happens before noon but afternoon problems are now a pain in the a***

- new versions are issued every year with new features that I don't need nor want and yet the old errors are retained and for example, if you take the changes made to MEP a few years ago, some of the new features work well, but others simply don't work and there are certain fittings that it simply cannot produce (and several years later, they still don't work).

- new features often look good when demonstrated in situations that "don't matter" but when you have to use them in real buildings, it is sometimes virtually impossible to make the object do what you need it to do

- some potentially good features are simply ignored, look at roof maker, hasn't changed a jot in 10 years and it could be handy if it worked properly, but no, it's just ignored year after year.

- the software seems able to cope with small scale developments, but on a site of only 29 small bungalows, the site plan is almost unworkably slow and I need to add the next 2 phases to bring the total to 59 homes, it just won't be able to cope

It used to be the case that Graphisoft was run by Architects to produce software that makes Architects more productive, but now it feels to me as if Graphisoft is run by accountants to make their bank balances bigger.

Ultimately, I believe that there will now be a mis-match between the basic quality of the software and the cost of the new subscription based licences. 

We have three perpetual licences and will not go on to subscription. We will run with the existing versions until they will run no longer and then we will re-evaluate the CAD products available at that stage, but Graphisoft will almost certainly not be an option. 

Lastly, there was worldwide support amongst the users for Graphisoft, we felt we were being treated fairly but I have never heard a user s saying they are pleased with the new subscription based licencing - if they aren't pleased and are contemplating just sticking with their perpetual licences, then they won't recommend the product to others and that will seriously diminish Graphisoft's profitability and viability.

I am amazed that Graphisoft will treat their existing users in such a cavalier way, goodwill is hard to gain but much harder to regain. 

[MatteoDes]

I completely feel the same @Marcel Cooper 

Seems like the Archicad development team has taken a route more targeted to engineers then Architects.

Even on Linkedin their response seems contradicting their original statement

( to architect by architect ) considering how many features are left unfinished / never developed 

we are paying an hefty sum in 2025 

- Still missing a decent, well rounded and fully supported native rendering engine.

- No ready to use high quality assets for 2025 standard, necessary for who’s using Archicad + BimX ecosystem

- Missing high quality shaders/material natively supported inside Archicad

- Missing a layout improvement for material and asset Library 

- Missing basic drag&drop features 

- Modelport features has to be considered baseline inside a software with a price tag like Archicad, but 

  you’ve to pay another subscription for an external tool from another company.

  ( in fact a paywall to have basic features Devs could easily implement inside Archicad )

[PrzemN]

There are a lot of things we miss and some ideas for improvement that I've remembered since I started using Archicad more than 20 years ago. What they've done with licences has made me lose hope in this program. They are just building and promoting another useless feature for architects in the new versions, on top of the old problems — some of which are like an inside joke. I am planning to sell all of my licences except one with the physical key and try one of the other programs. Subscription prices will increase quickly — for me, this is more of a ransom model and a good excuse to not make ANY improvements. I mean - I am sure tha archicad 31 will have a lot of things we missed for years to make us lose our keys / try subsrpition etc.

[torben_wadlinger]

Here is an excellent video that describes perfectly the downfall of Apple (in revenue and leadership in innovation). Whenever you hear Apple just replace it with Graphisoft. Seriously. 

https://youtu.be/JUG1PlqAUJk?si=7euRDwBzK5CgQrBN

This quote from the video get's it 100%

[jl_lt]

Man, i miss the days when Graphisoft was the most valuable company in the world

[Bricklyne Clarence]

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@torben_wadlinger wrote:

Here is an excellent video that describes perfectly the downfall of Apple (in revenue and leadership in innovation). Whenever you hear Apple just replace it with Graphisoft. Seriously. 

https://youtu.be/JUG1PlqAUJk?si=7euRDwBzK5CgQrBN

This quote from the video get's it 100%

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Even more ironic (....though,..... I guess ultimately not surprising.....) given the level of hero-worshipping of Steve Jobs that goes on at GSHQ, and the elevation of all things Apple/MacOS.

Maybe you shouldn't try to be too much like that which (...or whom) you admire so much.

Or you just might end up being like them.

But not in the way you think or want.

[torben_wadlinger]

Louis Rossmann on subscription models and breaking digital locks. I think he nailed it.

He fought hard on the right to repair and at last succeeded! 

[fede0184]

This is how much i paid in the last years (Italy)

2021--> SSA --> 530€ /year

2023--> SSA---> 715€/year

Now

2025--> i've to switch to subscription--> 901€/year for the studio plan 

70% price increase from 2021.

And with the studio plan i won't have the MEP tool.

This is not a problem because i don't use it that much (and i don't want to pay the extra cost for the collaborate plan.)

But i still  feel i'm paying more to have less.

 I know Revit is still a lot more expensive, but this continue price increase is a bit hard for me.

[jl_lt]

its not a feeling:   YOU ARE paying more.

love to all

[cocoloco]

Excuse meeee! Can you tell me how are you paying for studio designer only this? They want to charge me 2k. To be frankly honest with you, it’s always been 2k because I never even had option to pay like many of you did , I had to had always subscription (corporate America, lol) 

[fede0184]

I purchased a perpetual license for €4,000 in 2018, then paid the SSA every two years. Now the SSA is no longer available, so they're offering me a studio license at the same price as the old SSA, for three years. After three years, I'll pay the full price, which is over €2,000 a year.

[cocoloco]

you are still lucky. I seriously was not even offered perpetual license 5 years ago.. Corporate America 😄