What are the plans with ProKit tools?

[zoli79]

I have to say I am very excited for the ProKit tools. Especially windows and doors, but we will also investigate the other tools. Keynotes we checked before GS issued their version and it was pretty cool. I wonder if it has solutions to the shortcomings of the GS version.

We have a big dilemma ("about my big leg Emma"), is this add-on only phase 1 and from AC31 some of these tools will be part of Archicad? Or a hybrid of the 2? Reason I am asking is that there are competing tools here: windows, doors, stairs, keynotes etc. from Cadimage and Graphisoft. It will require us a lot of work to adjust our template and projects to the Cadimage versions (in case they are better), but if these tools will become something completely different in the future, and have to do that transitioning work again a year later, then we might wait for it. Which versions will Graphisoft make upgrades to? I can't imagine that they will be working on 2 different stair tools, just to name one example.

[vistasp]

According to this page <https://www.graphisoft.com/en-at/downloads/add-ons/prokit/> the ProKit Suite for AC30 is "is included exclusively in Archicad Collaborate and Archicad Max subscription plans, worldwide".

[zoli79]

Yes, I installed and tested it. My question is really about Archicad 31. Is GS planning to implement some of the CI functionality in the core Archicad? If so, how will our files migrate, if we choose to use some of the Prokit Suite tools now? Will other tools be killed off? I know it seems to be asking too much, but we need to know about short term plans, if our company is going to invest several hours into making adjustments. 

[James B]

Our short-term plans and aims are to work on the UI/UX of all tools to support more language versions . The tools have always been in English only until now.

As well as bug fixing now the audience to these tools is much broader. We will also be reading your feedback and passing those onto the team.

[Space_Agency]

@James B 

Thanks for this answer. But it seems like the heart of the question here is when there are two tools to choose from that do the same thing, 'what is Graphisoft's plan with respect to this?'. @Botonis reply seems to be exactly this.  Think about it from an architectural firm's development responsibilities: Is it worth our time to invest in the mechanics of implementing/using a different tool if they may substantially change relatively soon, and if so, how is that changed managed? I think the keynotes questions seems to be likely the most immediately applicable–2 tools with nearly the exact same intent, each with certain degrees of difference and really both could be better if the two were integrated as one. If we switch entirely over to the Prokit keynotes, do we get a functionality/migration break when these two tools are finally integrated to be one tool? It also seems like there could be a lot of confusion or conflict if say there are keynotes using the native archicad keynote tool combined with keynotes from the Prokit tool in one project. Would appreciate an understanding of the plan here beyond language versions and bug fixing and more specifically to future version and migration issues. 

[James B]

We are still evaluating this, and yes we’d like to avoid having duplicated functionality and the overlap of the same naming in the longer term. Just in the short term our focus is on technical integration into the same systems and ui updates for language support other than English.

[Space_Agency]

@James B : I appreciate you taking the time to try to answer. Sorry if I'm misunderstanding here, and nothing personal, but it seems like your answer is simply, 'we don't know yet'.  Here's why that is frustrating from a user perspective:

1. You've given us new tools and functionality. (some of which we have to upgrade our plans to use based on region (still don't understand that other than business greed, but maybe there is another reason and that's maybe another topic for another post)). 

2. There are other base tools that don't have that functionality and are potentially in direct conflict with these new tools or potentially could cause issues in using both.

3. We now have a risk choice: shift old keynote system over and use the new tool and develop template/SOP around it with the risk of having to either lose the feature now integrated into the template/SOP or at minimum in the future re-develop template/SOP and potentially lose the ability to edit elements created with the new tool. I.e. take on more risk and potentially spend more time and capital adjusting in the future.

4. No commitment from software development team/Graphisoft that item 3 won't happen. Not a great experience with the product. 

Since the direction seems to be just evaluation at this point, It seems like the guidance might be: "don't use these unless you already have a developed template and SOP system that is using them because you were a CI subscriber."  I hope you can see the issue we see here. 

[James B]

Hi @Space_Agency 

Thanks for your continued interest.

As these are not new tools for many of our customers (notably in Australia and New Zealand), who have been using these tools for years (and have long histories), we want and need to keep those workflows, and migrate if we consider to kill or merge any function/tool in the future (as with any tool/feature in Archicad as well).

As ProKit is not included in all markets and plans, we don't see ProKit Keynotes for example replacing the built-in Keynote functionality. As the two tools came at the problem(s) from different angles, it won't be so easy to just merge these functionalities in the short term. For ProKit Keynotes, our short/medium term goal is to maintain, fix issues and UI integrations (also with other tools that overlap) to keep existing workflows intact. We do want to focus on what strengths each tool has, but avoid continued overlaps of functionality (somehow). So continued feedback will help shape our plans.

[Botonis]

For sure the Ci Keynotes give some more interesting options in management, importing, checking.

There is no reason two have two different ways of keynoting.

Obviously the same thing can be said with doors, stairs etc......

[Lingwisyer]

Slapping a completely seperate "repository" onto the existing keynote system as a "fork" with the plan the "merge" it in sounds like a conflict nightmare since they do not even have the same root "repository"...

[NomadArchitec1988]

As a long time user of the Ci Tools (here in NZ) I think it's great that they have now as a core part of the tool set.

However, I am on the same consensus that this it can be a waste of time when you have several tools that are functioning essentially the same. Got off the phone from my local Graphisoft rep and she advised the tools I will lose going for a perpetual license, and I think I got lucky 'cause I am really only losing the ProKit (or CI) Keynotes tools functionality. I can work with that.

The issue stays the same though: the redundancy. 

I have no clear solution to this, and am just really watching this post series.

Side note: everyone is using keynote here as an example, but the tools I would merge into one is the "Doors, Windows, and Opening" tools. In my view, with the exception of of the curtain wall tool, they all do same thing: make openings. Either it's a simple opening or with joinery, it's individual unit fenestration in a way. I could be wrong and some people may have a different opinion.