"New" Global Libraries - Parametric Object Creation?

[Kalib Stewart]

There's been a lot made about moving to global libraries, which hasn't actually done much, seeing as the Archicad libraries have barely evolved over the past decade... Still no claddings, still no parametric windows and doors, still only like 2-3 skylights, still very very limited fixtures, casework, and appliances. Half of my Toolkit is just CI tools and their Select Library.

With all this fuss about transitioning from one form of library pack to another form of library pack, are there any plans to finally allow us to create our own "parametric families (objects)" in both 2D and 3D? 

GDL is archaic and redundant for anyone trying to be productive design and documentation-wise; we don't have the time nor the desire to code so that I can make a 3D tap or a stretchable 2D symbol...And then test it for hours on end until I figure out where the single wrong line of code is.

Param-o is clunky and requires creating 10 blocks with 20 lines to create a four-leg table... Nice if you're experienced in Grasshopper, worthless if you're not.

And, the library part maker, at least in my experience, seems awfully slow and limited. There's also little to no available documentation available on how to even use it in an optimal fashion, and it seems I have to be doing it in separate files all the time.

So, for this 28 release/preview, are actually going to see any substantial improvements in our libraries or our library creation ability upon the release or before the end of this decade? This global library "feature" has so far been nothing but moving existing objects into new folders, and I could have done that in Windows Explorer and some website downloads.

This "Global International Library" has given me access to maybe 4 new useful objects...

It's been what, 10 years and for example there's still only one very limited vanity option.... 10 years with essentially the same limited library and no efficient ways to add to it. Is there actually any work at all going on in this area at GS?

Revit's had this mastered for years and it seems GS hasn't even started.

[mthd]

Agreed and those who are good at GDL and who also have the brains for it, are very much needed. And some of these people are also a great help for creating highly parametric objects or structures with apps like Rhino and Grasshopper as we all know.

Myself, I am just content with Archicad & CI tools and a better library in future versions of Archicad.

I might be persuaded though to try and use Rhino in conjunction with Archicad. I like the graphical user interface inside Rhino because I don’t think well in terms of algorithms. 

[Francois_MCD]

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@mthd wrote:

Not everybody has the special gift of GDL code comprehension and writing, that is just being realistic of course. Archicad is software that we purchase to design with, not to code with to design objects...

GDL is definitely not user friendly and that should only be for special library part designers. Or in house at GS to create more library objects for all of us to use.

Why not have depository of library objects created by those with the gift that we can share for free ?

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Right on the money, @mthd, GDL coding is suited for the few & not everyone.

That is exactly why, over time Graphisoft gave us tools of various complexities & capabilities, like

• built in functionality
• -> File > Libraries & Objects > Save Selection As Object/Door/etc +
• -> import for multiple 3D formats +
• -> the GDL Editor (with the recent Updated GDL Editor),
• and Add-ons like Library Part Maker & PARAM-O 
• and also why 3rd Party solutions exist like ArchiGlazing, ModelPort & BIMobject® (an international listed company no less).
• Add to that, BIMcomponents.com is exactly the depository of library objects created by all Archicad users that we can share & access for free.
  With even more Archicad Object Download Sites listed here.

Graphisoft have always made Archicad stand out as a "central hub" to handle both import & export of the longest list of file formats of any Architectural design software in existence. Archicad is truly the "Swiss Army Knife" of BIM software allowing users the freedom to do what we need to do with what we have (skills, resources, etc). 

Yes as we do more with Archicad, we agree that GDL is ideal for Archicad GDL Objects and we want it to be easier. So why don't more users use PARAM-O / Library Part Maker? Graphisoft is waiting for us to use PARAM-O more in particular, then they'll put in applicable recourses to improve it even more. 

It's clear as day, Graphisoft is giving Archicad user the choices, opportunities & tools to work with objects the way they prefer & need to. Our task is to help them to better understand what that looks like as our world & work is changing. 

[abdelaziz]

Hi, @Jman 

before when I use LPM there was a template available, do you know where we can download this LPM template?

Thanks

[Jman]

Hi Abdelaziz ,

Sorry can't find old LPM template in my system. Try to download and instal earlier versions of LPM.

[Jman]

Check this old GDL for Beginners by David Nicholson Cole. It is old version, so sorry for the old archicad interface. Revit wasn't bourn yet when original was written.

[Gerald Lock]

If Graphisoft are 'waiting for us to use PARAM-O' they have not made it clear they are doing so, nor have they made it easy to make a sart! PARAM-O has almost zero useful documentation. 

https://help.graphisoft.com/AC/24/int/_AC24_Help/PARAM-O/PARAM-O-1.htm

The section on Node Documentation is especially sparse and unhelpful. No worked examples. No clear workflows and if you're not a Grasshopper user, the node-and-connector interface rapidly becomes a tangled mess of spagetti for anything more than the simplest object.

There are a few YouTube videos by 3rd parties (many with no audio/voice-over of what's being done!) but nothing 'official' from GS beyond the announcement of the new feature.

I'd gladly give this intriguing 'toolset & workspace' offering a red hot go, if only I had some solid guidance on:

• initial planning
• how to use the various nodes (what each parameter controls, required/suggested ordering of nodes etc.)
• techniques for managing the node diagram
• visual prompting on whether a node/connector connection is valid (colour on move, alert icon on the connector after making an 'invalid' connection)
• numerous worked examples
• a section in Graphisoft Learn with step-by-step tutorials

[Davor P]

There are a few beaten paths that GS is not venturing out of in my opinion.

When in comes to GDL this is evident in modelling everything with GDL primitives - usually only a handful are useful without exploding your brain trying to decrypt the reference guide and if you want to make anything remotely more complex, good luck. And even if you do you will eventually need to model a couch... and you end up with something truly awful - just look at most of the standard library parts.
Another example is trying to produce LOD with resol parameter - it works only for simple objects. Anything more complex ends up looking like it came out of John Carpenter movie. Just simply create an object with 2 sets of meshes - one for detailed and one for simplified LOD. For schematic use GDL primitives.
Instead of developing Paramo, graphical GDL editor would be far better option. Why not have GDL primitives that you can place and edit in 3D and add parameters. Just add similar controls that already exist in Archicad that make sense.
And have the ability in this editor to link external files - skp, 3dm. Then if you have a mesh object you can quickly edit it in an app where users can actually edit meshes since Archicad is very, very bad at this.
For quite some time I have been thinking about creating a plugin for Sketchup that could directly export gsm. At the moment FBX works good for getting objects from SketchUp to Archicad, that is if you can overcome the FBX import bugs (scale is wrong and edge smooth parameters are messed up).
In general, the principle of action and effect is very disconnected in Archicad. In GDL you write the code and need a microscope to see the tiny preview or you need to keep jumping between windows. In Archicad, if you want to change how window appears on floorplan, you need to navigate through pages and pages of UI to find that one little checkbox. You tick it, then go back and realize it wasn't left, it was right you needed. Newer tools like curtain wall or stair are even worse. People are genuinely lost when they open them.

And yes, GDL is very powerful, no doubt there. But I am finding this the same as having cinema 4D as rendering engine in Archicad. Way too overpowered. Technical capability is outstanding. But then you have your poor, sad looking objects rendered with 100% physically accurate shadows and reflections. I have almost never seen anyone use this rendering engine. Most users go to 3rd party solutions - both for furniture and for rendering.

[Govin eric]

100% agree. I have spent sometime creating parametric objects and it's frustrating. NO help from the manual!

I find my "coding" really complex whereas it looks like there are better way to do it but no real explanation in the guidelines. I tried to use Grass Hopper nodal coding for reference but I found out despite sharing the same concept Paramo used a different approach (so, no way to figure out Paramo tools by looking at Grass Hopper).  Also I quickly reach the limit of Paramo (limited parameter, texture etc.) . Like many other Archicad ideas, it started from a good intention, but was never developed well enough to be truly useful.

[Gerald Lock]

I've seen a lot in the AI development world around AI-assisted coding "write me a code block using Graphisoft GDL that models a cone and cylinder aligned centrally on the z-axis (ie. x-axis and y-axis are the same for both), and provides paramaters to adjust the height and diameter of each element and the relative position of each on the z-axis"

I've tried this with Claude a couple of times, but it clearly doesn't know GDL (despite telling me it does!)

Here's  it's answer for the above prompt:

! Parameters
parameters cylinder_height = 1
parameters cylinder_diameter = 0.5
parameters cylinder_z_position = 0

parameters cone_height = 1.5
parameters cone_base_diameter = 0.8
parameters cone_z_position = 1.5

! Cylinder
cyl2 cylinder_diameter/2, cylinder_height
    pen 1
    set body 1
    set shadow 1
    set view_3d 1
    set view_2d 1
    set solid 1
    xform 0, 0, cylinder_z_position

! Cone
cone2 cone_base_diameter/2, cone_height
    pen 2
    set body 1
    set shadow 1
    set view_3d 1
    set view_2d 1
    set solid 1
    xform 0, 0, cone_z_position

For anyone that knows some basic GDL, this is clearly BS.

I wonder if Graphisoft (or others) would consider training an LLM on a decent-sized GDL coding data set?

Or is this just another pipe-dream?

[leandrolopes]

😂Most AIs are just like teenagers, they rarely know about the things they talk about, but they sure say it in a way even you believe. 
Copilot and GPT always invent options in menus that never were there in the first place whenever I ask something about a software.