CodeMeter users cannot run old versions of ArchiCAD

[Jussi_]

Windows has had better backwards compatible than Macintosh since OsX was introduced. As a Mac user I can tell we can cope with newest version running on newest operating system and hardware.

But I cannot tolerate that we cannot run obsolete ArchiCAD versions on old machines or on virtual machines, because of hardware key not supporting old ArchiCAD versions.

It should be my right to open ArchiCAD file on exactly same ArchiCAD version that it was created. Being perfect document, not almost correctly converted version of my design.

Hardware keys not supporting old version is just wrong. Buildings lifespan outruns software and hardware lifespan or company lifespans.

And I do have old machines and operating systems stored alongside with my old ArchiCAD documents.

I recommend that ArchiCAD 7 and ArchiCAD 9 should be released without hardware lock. Maybe AC 3,4 and AC4,5 are needed too. AC16 can handle documents from AC10 onwards very well and hardware keys still support all of those ArchiCAD versions.

[Karl Ottenstein]

Jussi_ wrote:
It should be my right to open ArchiCAD file on exactly same ArchiCAD version that it was created.

I've split your editorial post into a new thread as it has nothing to do with the Windows Vista topic.

It is your right to use any version of AC you want... on a platform that supports it. I don't know why you think Graphisoft should be obligated to continue to support PowerPC processors, for example. What you talk about isn' an OS X issue... it is that Apple changed the processors on their computers... and then Apple dropped support for the Rosetta PPC emulator. This has nothing to do with Graphisoft.

Any Mac user needing to run old software - requiring PPC or OS 9 - must have a boot disk with an old version of OS X, or a very old Mac, or both. Graphisoft cannot solve the issues that Apple created many, many years ago.

My 2 cents.

[Jussi_]

I feel you misunderstood my post.
As a paying customers since AC3.3 I am aware and able to cope with new systems and changes. Started with Mac, switched to Windows and then back to Mac.
I cannot run AC 3.x and that has been handled long time ago.
How AC4 to AC7 changed things - no complaints there. Switch from Mac to Windows was feasible (and right choice). Small number of CAD documents helped, too.
Having universal WibuKey that runs AC6 till AC17 is great. We should be able to run ArchiCAD version prior that, too. In principal, though personally I have handled documents from that era.
I have hardware to run all ArchiCAD versions from AC4.16 onwards, if only hardware key provided me the rights to run copy-protected software.
By Graphisoft choice, reliable source claims that I have to switch from WibuKey to CodeMeter in order to run AC18. Limiting my working ArchiCAD licenses to AC10 onwards. This decision by Graphisoft is very wrong from customer stand point.
There are reason why AC7, AC9 and AC16 are meaningful versions. The next version brought changes that do not convert without tinkering. Preserving hardware and software to run old documents conversion free should be paying customers choice.
If hardware lock does not run old version - it is by Graphisoft choice. Not Microsoft or Apple choice.
I am not whining about new version not being backwards compatible. If I choose to use new ArchiCAD on old documents, I know what it takes and if it is worth it.
I need AC7 and AC9 more than I need AC18. I skipped AC17 already (paid for it though). Too many words - hope you get my point this time.

[Barry Kelly]

Jussi_ wrote:
By Graphisoft choice, reliable source claims that I have to switch from WibuKey to CodeMaster in order to run AC18.

I am not sure where they got their information from but I have heard (from Graphisoft HQ itself) that version 18 will run on the WIBU key.


You may have some success with the file converters as well.
The 7.0 converter can open files as old as 4.1 and runs with WIBU or Codemeter keys.

You are still limited on Macs with the operating system as the 7 and 9 converters won't run in a Rossetta environment (OS 10.7 onwards).

http://www.graphisoft.com/downloads/fileconverter.html

Barry.

[Jussi_]

Barry wrote:
I am not sure where they got their information from but I have heard (from Graphisoft HQ itself) that version 18 will run on the WIBU key.
Barry.

That is excellent news.
I have converted plenty of projects. Sometimes right choice is not to convert, but use the ArchiCAD version the document was created (or the version which does not render errors on old document).

What Graphisoft should do when they drop hardware lock's support to old ArchiCAD versions?
Most hassle free solution as customer stand point would be removing copy protection from old ArchiCAD versions. Then those of us with old documents and hardware to run old ArchiCAD version could do that. And use newest machines and latest ArchiCAD on current projects.

When CodeMeter is the only option, all ArchiCAD version till AC9 from 2004 should be hardware lock free.
As things are now, all ArchiCAD versions till AC5.1 from 1997 should be runnable without a dongle.

The most important old versions are seven and nine. Graphisoft should prepare themselves if they choose to drop hardware key's support of those very important ArchiCAD versions in the future.

Conversion trivia:
AC5.1 can draw walls with multiple materials elegantly. When AC6 came, walls were drawn the same way on a floor plan as it was with AC5. Floor plans created by ArchiCAD 5.1 cannot be duplicated exactly same on any other ArchiCAD version. If that 5.1 specific feature was used. Ability to run old version can matter to some of us.

[Karl Ottenstein]

Jussi_ wrote:
I feel you misunderstood my post.
As a paying customers since AC3.3 I am aware and able to cope with new systems and changes...

I have hardware to run all ArchiCAD versions from AC4.16 onwards, if only hardware key provided me the rights to run copy-protected software.
By Graphisoft choice, reliable source claims that I have to switch from WibuKey to CodeMeter in order to run AC18. Limiting my working ArchiCAD licenses to AC10 onwards. This decision by Graphisoft is very wrong from customer stand point.
There are reason why AC7, AC9 and AC16 are meaningful versions. The next version brought changes that do not convert without tinkering. Preserving hardware and software to run old documents conversion free should be paying customers choice.
If hardware lock does not run old version - it is by Graphisoft choice. Not Microsoft or Apple choice.

I apologize. I did misunderstand. I completely agree with you. Anyone with the suitable hardware/OS who had old versions should be able to continue to run those old versions.

I have heard the same rumor about a switch to CodeMeter keys for all customers at some point in the future. As you note, and as is stated on the GS Codemeter page - only AC 10 and onwards are supported by the CM key.

It sure seems that just as they have CM "enablers" to allow the CM key to be used with AC 10, 11 and 12... that there could be some way that they could produce 'enablers' for even older versions. The CM page here:
http://www.graphisoft.com/downloads/protection_key.html
notes that CM is not supported on Mac PPC systems. It doesn't say whether an enabler could be produced for Windows... or for a Mac Intel system that was running an old AC version under Rosetta with, say, Snow Leopard.

I agree with your suggestion for one option - remove license protection from the ancient versions. GS might be unwilling to do that of course.

Another possibility would be for GS to provide a special WIBU key good for AC 9 and earlier to any customer who requests it.

Again, sorry that I misunderstood your post!

Karl

[David Maudlin]

Karl wrote:
Another possibility would be for GS to provide a special WIBU key good for AC 9 and earlier to any customer who requests it.

I had a similar thought: to let users that want to run older versions (I can go back to AC7 by rebooting into a OSX10.6.8 partition, which is far as I need to go, needing to access AC4.1 files, but not wishing to work in 4.1) keep their WIBU key for the older versions, and just put the newer (AC19+) on the CodeMeter key. This could entail removing some licenses from the WIBU key (say AC10-AC18) before activating the CodeMeter key so only one key would have the "current" versions. I am not in the same workflow as Jussi_, but have found bringing old versions forward in steps to work better than making 2 big leaps. I would also want to keep access to older versions.

David

[Jussi_]

I do pay to get all new ArchiCAD versions, but I end up not using all of them. At least AC17 and AC15 did get skipped, currently I am using AC16.
I tried to register AC18 WIBU key with Yosemite, Mavericks and Snow Leopard Macintosh - and I am not able to do it. I followed the help pages, no help. I either just skip the 18 or bother local distributor about issue with Java and Wibu and ArchiCAD = PAIN.
This post is not about my inability to get AC18 WIBU key recognized by AC18. (Solved, see bottom).

Graphisoft states in their WIBU WIKI page that AC 18 will be THE LAST ArchiCAD version that can be run with WIBU key.

WIBU 6.20 driver is needed for AC18. Help pages state that on Windows one needs to install 6.10 instead - but help text might cover network license issues on Mac and Windows mixed office environment. And then to my point: WIBU 6.20 does not run ArchiCAD 7.

To run ArchiCAD 7 I have to install older WIBU driver, which does not run AC18. And I can't have both WIBU drivers installed at the same time.

And this topic is about preserving old hardware, having dual boot machines and paying customers right to documents that have several hundred hours work invested in.

Graphisoft should address this issue with official statement. After all by next year all WIBU keys are replaced.
Those of use who have thousands of projects from 1990's onwards do need the access to old files (and old ArchiCAD versions). There is no way of knowing which old file needs to be reworked and converting them all is not economically feasible. And like I stated before, conversion has errors and inconstancies.

---
I currently have WIBU key registered up to AC18, which I run on Yosemite Mac.
My Snow Leopard Mac does now have working AC7, AC9 and AC10-16.

[Laszlo Nagy]

There are File Converter versions which can open very old ArchiCAD files. It might be a good idea to open those old file you would be using with AC7 in these Converter versions and save them in a later file format.

http://www.graphisoft.com/downloads/fileconverter.html

I would probably open them with the AC10 File Converter and save them as AC10 format. CodeMeter keys can be used with all versions from AC10 onward. The CodeMeter key appeared with AC13 but Graphisoft created CodeMeter-enablers for AC10-12:

http://www.graphisoft.com/downloads/protection_key.html#CMEnabler

So I think the solution is there for your case.

[Jussi_]

Why is so hard to software vendors, in this case to Graphisoft, to understand that paying customers need access to their work. Exactly same way they were created numerous years back.

I am aware of conversion procedures, I have stated that numerous times. I also know that results of those conversions are not the same as the original was. As an architect who has done dozens of real work project conversions, I have more knowledge on this than most people and more knowledge were conversions fail (than coders at Graphisoft). These converters are not high priority, they fail and have numerous bugs (or unwanted features) no one will ever address. We have what we have.

Manual labor, plenty of it, is needed to get old PLN to run with AC18. Oldest ArchiCAD files are cheaper to remodel from DWG than go to all steps Graphisoft forces ArchiCAD users take in order to open PLN from last two decades. Sad, but true.

Buildings have lifespan, those designs made with ArchiCAD 3 to 9 are getting new attention. Sometimes architect fee covers cost to convert to newest ArchiCAD file format, but not always.

Graphisoft should pay attention to oldest and most loyal customers, they have plenty of old files. I strongly feel that Graphisoft is neglecting us. And we have paid real money of every ArchiCAD version. And put almost all of our work hours to those files created by those ArchiCAD versions (that are going to be obsolite).