ArchiCAD loading the standard library .pla twice

[Anonymous]

Has anybody encountered the situation where AC loads the ArchiCAD Library 81.pla twice during the file open process?

This is on a new & reset file with cleared caches and preferences. The only path the Library manager shows is to the /Applications/ArchiCAD folder/archicad libraries/ folder.

I'm a bit baffled. As the libraries staus window opens, the first time, it loads the .pla as phase 1 of 1. When that one is done, AC then proceeds to open the staus window again, and load the .pla as phase 1 of 13 which of course includes all the standard tools and add-ons.

We're having a machine that library manager is crashing consistently - I'm filing a bug report momentarily, and I'm wondering if this might be related...

Thanks
Wes

[Anonymous]

I have been seeing this consistently in both 8.0 & 8.1. I can't say that it happens all the time but I don't recall ever not seeing it. I have not had any time to investigate so I haven't made any mention of it before. I just assumed that it was some new quirk resulting from changes in AC8's relationship to the libraries.

The slow library loading continues to be a problem in 8.1 (though much better than 8.0) which I hope is being addressed by Graphisoft.

[Djordje]

Weston wrote:
Has anybody encountered the situation where AC loads the ArchiCAD Library 81.pla twice during the file open process?

http://www.graphisoft.com/support/archicad/archiguide/PLAloadedtwice.html

[Anonymous]

djordje- thanks for the link. if the problem machine was set to use a library cache, I could understand its relevance, but unfortunately, this is not the case. The library is/was being loaded directly - selecting the pla on the left and adding it to the list on the right.

I continue to be perturbed about this, as it seems this is part of a more major problem that consistently causes AC to crash. I've sent the bug report and described everything to US Tech support.

here's what happens:

Install fresh copy of AC8.1v1. Open program to a New & Reset.

archicad library 81.pla loads by default, first step 1 of 1, then again as step 1 of 13.

open library manager

add the office standards.pla library off the server.

reload libraries. watch as the archicad library loads twice again.

open library manager.

hit cancel, watch bug reporter come up as ac crashes.

The only difference I can tell between this machine and numerous others in the office is this problem of libraries loading twice. None of the G5's we have, or the faster G4's have this problem, it seems. The process above sounds odd for a fresh drawing, but similar process happens when locating libraries for teamwork jobs started on other machines.

I'll let you all know if/when tech support discovers anything...

Wes

[tsturm]

I am sorry, but I do not understand László Nagy's explanation of PLA file loaded twice when using Library Cache.

Some where in his explanation he lost me. In fact, the whole process of libraries saved as PLAs and referenced as project libraries is baffling. I think I understand why GS decided to do it this way. However there is a problem. How do you change a part in the PLA library? Say to add a ROT command or change the default font. How is this done without exploding the PLA into a regular folder?

I see using the PLA a great way to keep people from changing library parts. But there are so many times I just want to tweek a setting in the AC library.

But to the question of Weston's. does Weston see two copies of the AC 8.1 library in the right panel of the library manager? If so, I can see confusion. If not, then what is AC doing when it loads the different librarys when it states step 2 of 15 and such.

Our office has librarys dedicated to office standards, custom materials, and project specific parts. So on most jobs we load three to five librarys. During the Library part loading process it states step 5 of 18. Where is the 18 coming from? Does this refer to the number of subdirectories in that Library?

Anyone clarify?

[Anonymous]

I was sorta lost too, but having used library caches before, I think I have a basic grasp on the post - not that I can adequately explain it. Maybe Laslo himself could address it?

With respect to my earlier post and you request for clarification: only 1 copy of each library is shown in the dialog at the right - on all machines in the office.

AC uses the other "steps" to load things like the standard zones and materials that come with AC. I'm sure someone could be more specific, but that's basically what I recall from similar questions on the email list.

I just don't understand why this one machine decided that it has to do it twice...

As far as tweaking parts, I've generally had more complaints from people about speed of loading than the need to modify parts. If someone needs to modify a part, it can always be saved to the project library. If it is a commonly used tweak, I will collect and add those parts to the Office standard library periodically. I also encourage people to save tweaked parameters as favorites, which can be added to an office standard favorites pallette.

HTH
Wes

[__archiben]

this has been happening again and again since 8.0.0!

i have it pared down to this: when the archiCAD library is being loaded as a part of a network set. this, however, doesn't fit with your 'new & reset' issue unless you haven't installed local libraries?

i have found that the only way around it is to 'use' network libraries with the cache function enabled. this speeds up library load time no end (on a mac at least) because they are cached, and prevents the double loading somehow . . . !

see here for a run-down:
http://www.graphisoft.com/community/archicad-talk/viewtopic.php?p=6436&highlight=#6436

as far as the other 'steps' go, they are the standard/necessary libraries that archiCAD requires to function properly. . . but wait until you see the cache synchronisation progress: "Step 1689 of 18" is when you need to start asking questions!!!

~/archiben

[Laszlo Nagy]

Hello,

My attention has been directed to this thread at Graphisoft TechSup so I try to answer some questions.

Has anybody encountered the situation where AC loads the ArchiCAD Library 81.pla twice during the file open process? This is on a new & reset file with cleared caches and preferences. The only path the Library manager shows is to the /Applications/ArchiCAD folder/archicad libraries/ folder. I'm a bit baffled. As the libraries staus window opens, the first time, it loads the .pla as phase 1 of 1. When that one is done, AC then proceeds to open the staus window again, and load the .pla as phase 1 of 13 which of course includes all the standard tools and add-ons.

The only time I encountered this was the case I wrote about in that ArchiGuide issue. I suggest you contact GS US Tech Support so they can investigate it for you. There must be something with that machine because even if Library Part are loaded twice, it should not crash.
I has only one thing in mind: if you go to the Library Cache Settings, is 'Use a Local Copy' checkbox checked? That might be related piece of information.

I am sorry, but I do not understand László Nagy's explanation of PLA file loaded twice when using Library Cache.

I think the title of the writing was not entirely correct. I made some modifications to it. I put it here at the very end of my post and soon we will put this new version on the web as well.

How do you change a part in the PLA library?

If you plan to modify Library Parts, you need to Extract the contents of the PLA file so you get a Library structure. As you wrote, PLA is good if you do not plan to modify those parts, or don't wish the person to modify them.

If not, then what is AC doing when it loads the different librarys when it states step 2 of 15 and such.

ArchiCAD loads Add-Ons, APIs etc., not only libraries. This it always does so there will always be at least a dozen items loaded. Some of these are 'Accessories.apx', 'ArchiCAD.dll', 'Construction Simulation.apx' etc. These are usually loaded so quickly (because of their small size) that you don't see their names displayed.
But after the libraries are loaded and the Project File is being downloaded, you can see them listed in the 'Libraries' field on the upcoming little status bar in the middle of the screen.

With respect to my earlier post and you request for clarification: only 1 copy of each library is shown in the dialog at the right - on all machines in the office.

Yes, this is a different story from what the ArchiGuide article is about. If you do what is in the article, you see 'ArchiCAD Library 8.1' and 'ArchiCAD Library 8.1.PLA' in the list. So speak to US Tech Sup.


So, here is the full text of the new version of the ArchiGuide article:
Laszlo Nagy
Architect, GS HQ Tech Sup permanent guest
...............................

Library Parts loaded twice when using Library Cache
Written by László Nagy

If a network Library is loaded into ArchiCAD with a Local Copy of the Library specified in the Library Cache Settings Subdialog of the Library Manager, Library Parts can be downloaded twice if there is a PLA file within the loaded network Library.
If you go to the Library Manager Dialog, and select such a network Library with a PLA file within it, you will notice that not only the Library will be added to the list on the right, but the PLA file(s) contained within it as well. This is because ArchiCAD can read Library Parts straight from PLA files without having to extract them as was done in previous versions.
In such a case, the content of the PLA file will first will be extracted into a folder within the Local Copy Library, resulting in a complete library structure, and then the PLA file itself will also be downloaded to the Local Copy Library as part of the network Library. So Library Parts contained in the PLA file will be in the Local Copy of the network library twice.
The same thing happens when a Local Copy of loaded Libraries is used in the case of a Teamwork Project.
To avoid this, make sure that any network Library does not contain any PLA files. Another good advice is that you make sure no other unnecessary files ( PLN, DLL, DAT files etc.) are included in those network folder used as Libraries because they not only increase download time to the local computer, but these must be synchronized as well, taking unnecessary time away from the program.

[__archiben]

laszlonagy wrote:
Library Parts loaded twice when using Library Cache
Written by László Nagy

... The same thing happens when a Local Copy of loaded Libraries is used in the case of a Teamwork Project.
To avoid this, make sure that any network Library does not contain any PLA files.

lászló

thanks for your input. if i am understanding you correctly you are saying that this duplication happens only when using 'cache libraries'? this is contrary to our experience . . .

the two scenarios below are both in the teamwork environment:

1. before the use of 'cache libraries'
prior to our office adopting the 'cache libraries' method for working with libraries in archiCAD, we set up our projects as follows:

we typically loaded three libraries from a network volume, the archiCAD library 8.1, our office library and a job specific library. the teamleader would share the file with the library paths directed to these three network libraries.

next, a teammate signing-in would experience the 'object library 81.PLA' loading as phase 1 of 1 before being loaded AGAIN with all of the other libraries (phase x of x).

as you will be well aware, for us mac users this was (still is!) a painfully slow process. so, in order to speed things up we decided to load our office library and job specific library from the server and the archiCAD library from the local machines.

with this method the library load times were faster for the teamleader who set the project up, however it brought further complications to teammates who couldn't load the archiCAD library unless they were connected to the teamleaders machine! this also affected BGarchiCAD and updating drawings in plotmaker. what often happened was that a teammate would use their library manager to load the nearest archiCAD 8.1 library (their own local copy) who's path would get sent as a 'change' back to the PLP file adding further complications for everyone else: a vicious circle!

or they would connect to the teamleaders machine and experience the same duplication of the object library 81 as it was then treated as a network library from the teamleaders machine rather than the server.

a solution to this would be having the library paths saved as dynamic(?) addresses: hence "<machine name>/Applications/ArchiCAD 8.1 folder/ArchiCAD Library 8.1" would become "./Applications/ArchiCAD 8.1 folder/ArchiCAD Library 8.1" where the initial dot and forward slash designate the local machine regardless of who is opening the file.

2. after adopting the 'cache library' method
following the release of 8.1 we adopted the local 'cache' as a method for managing our libraries. the project is set up as initially described above with the teamleader sharing the project with paths to the network libraries. a teammate then signs-in, initially experiencing the duplicate object library PLA issue, but then immediately uses the library manager to enable 'cache libraries'. this setting is saved with the users draft preferences and further sign-ins, send and receives, etc results in fast library loading which is free of duplicate loading.

see my step-by-step:
http://www.graphisoft.com/community/archicad-talk/viewtopic.php?p=6436&highlight=#6436

one drawback of this is that archiCAD cannot handle a network outage and, even after re-establishing network connections, it thinks that all the remote library parts have been deleted - if you are not careful and not aware of this bug you could effectively delete your entire local cache in this false synchronisation.

it should be noted that we are loading three PLAs as a part of our library loading process: one is the default archiCAD 'object library 81', the other two form a part of our office library.

additionally, you state that the PLAs from the server get extracted to a true folder structure. this is not the case with our 'cache library' function. please see the attached screenshot which shows two PLAs! one in the root of the library caches folder, the other in the archiCAD library folder within it!

to sum up
whilst loading these three libraries and the three associated PLAs WITHOUT using 'cache libraries' we experienced a duplication in the loading of the 'object library 81' ONLY. the other two PLAs loaded OK (and once).

when using the 'cache library' feature all three networked libraries (with PLAs) cached locally, loaded OK with NO duplication of the 'object library 81'

this is quite contrary to your advice above! it seems that library loading will remain a mystery yet!

~/archiben

[Laszlo Nagy]

I checked this carefully, and I think these are separate issues.
I managed to reproduce what you stated about the TeamWork situation. AC Library loaded twice. I don't know why this is but besides making the process a bit slower, it has no harmful effect. I can imagine this has to do something with the internal workings of the program. I don't know, I am just guessing.
The issue I talked about in that article results in the Library Loading Report stating that there are about 2-3000 duplicate Library Objects. If I am correct, this does not happen in your case.
I could also reproduce the phenomenon of ArchiCAD crashing on the Mac after cancelling the Library Manager Dialog. GS is aware of this and in later development-phase versions of the program I could not reproduce this, so they might have improved on it.
One Tech Sup guy told me it may be caused by incorrect GDL Library Objects (this crash). This sometimes manifested itself by ArchiCAD crashing at start-up or it crashing when trying to go into the Library Manager Dialog. This issue is being worked on by GS as well.