Converting 3D objects not made in AC for use in AC

[rm]

I'm guessing this question is for a GDL pro. I find there to be a shortage of real & true furniture objects available for free or purchase to use in AC that are made specifically for AC.

Now, there are a ton of real manufacturers' 3D furniture objects out there that can be imported into AC as an object, then saved.

PROBLEM: Unless I am missing how to do this, there seems to be no parameters for materials. In otherwords, the beauty of an AC library part is the ability to change parameters of materials. That is a chair can have a material for the seat, and another material for the legs, which then can be rendered realistically. But everytime I import a dwg object or a 3DS objects, they come in with only one material for all components of the object.......bummer!

1. Am I missing an obvious setting in the translation that preserves material settings from DWG or 3Ds objects.

2. If what I am asking can't easily be done, is Graphisoft working on translators that will solve the problem.

Thanks in advance,

RM

Mac OS10.3
AC 8.0/8.1

[David Larrew]

No 3D objects brought into AC from .DWG or .3DS format are translated with parameters other than overall size.

That doesn't mean that you can't add/adjust parametric functionality in the converted object.

The trick is, prior to conversion, assign independent materials/pen colors to any entities of the object that you want to control with parameters. Once you bring the 3D entities into AC as a GDL scripted object you will be able to open the code and separate/organize the converted scripts by material/pen color and assign/add parameters to control the different parts.

[rm]

David,

Sounds to me that you are well versed in GDL and changing scripts. I'm not good at either.

I don't have the time or inclination to learn code.....to many other tasks on my plate., and I suspect I am not alone. Graphisoft would serve its customers well to either invest in hiring someone with your skills to convert manufacturers objects for use in AC so when we place furniture in our models, it looks real. Too many (read....not all) furniture objects, and this goes for plumbing and lighting objects too, are simply too simple. They are interpretations of real objects often with sharp edges that should be smooth. But more importantly, I would like to be able to place furniture in my models that is commercially available.

If I was using AutoCAD we would not be discussing this.

Regards,
RM

[Karl Ottenstein]

rm wrote:
David,

Sounds to me that you are well versed in GDL and changing scripts. I'm not good at either.

I don't have the time or inclination to learn code.....to many other tasks on my plate., and I suspect I am not alone. Graphisoft would serve its customers well to either invest in hiring someone with your skills to convert manufacturers objects for use in AC so when we place furniture in our models, it looks real. Too many (read....not all) furniture objects, and this goes for plumbing and lighting objects too, are simply too simple. They are interpretations of real objects often with sharp edges that should be smooth. But more importantly, I would like to be able to place furniture in my models that is commercially available.

I hear your pain, but you have to realize that it is highly unlikely that all people will like the same furniture, etc. (For example, a lot of people have wanted the Steelcase line. I and other residential people have no use for these objects.) Personally, I think quite a few of the objects in the AC library suck - but they're fine for place/spaceholders. But, they are reasonably flexible, and most important, have very few polygons and display in 3D/section rather quickly.

Most of the parts that you'll find as DWG and other formats tend to have lots of polygons to provide the 'look' that you describe, and most of the time, people don't want to wait to see that.

ArchiCAD makes it very easy to bring in any external 3D object. Yes, it takes 10 minutes of learning (and then a few minutes per object), but you cannot expect GS to hire someone to convert other objects if you aren't willing to take a few minutes to learn to use the program. In your defense, however, GS should certainly have a 3 page tutorial on how to do exactly what you want to do, since nearly everybody wants/needs to do it at some point. Without such a tutorial, hands-on training with a reseller, consultant or archi-neighbor - or someone willing to type it all here - is unfortunately the only option. That is the real problem IMHO.

Karl

[Thomas Holm]

Karl,

GDL is surely my weakest side. Nevertheless, I decided to try David Pacifio's tip on custom windows the other day. But I ran into a problem that I posted a question about in the GDL forum. Maybe the question is too newbie for that forum, but I wasn't sure where to put it. Perhaps you or any other knowledgeable person might take a look? Please?
http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=4968#4968

Thanks

Thomas
(I'm still on AC7v3)

[rm]

Karl writes:
"ArchiCAD makes it very easy to bring in any external 3D object."

I believe I pointed that out already in my post, Karl.

Karl writes:
"(For example, a lot of people have wanted the Steelcase line. I and other residential people have no use for these objects.)"

What qualifies any other member on this forum to know what other Architects do, or don't need in there 3D models, or to what level of quality those models should be produced. Its rather bold to assume what other firms NEED for THEIR practice.

Generally your quick to be helpful on this forum, but I think you have made one too many unqualified presumptions in your responce to my post!

Karl writes:
"Most of the parts that you'll find as DWG and other formats tend to have lots of polygons to provide the 'look' that you describe, and most of the time, people don't want to wait to see that."

Karl do you really believe that YOUR clients don't need clear and precise information or are you just unwilling to take the time to provide it for them. Perhaps it is because you don't budget your proposals and fees to accomdate such services? My firm does!

By your statements, one could extract, as an example, that Ferrari should stop building exotic sport cars because more people buy Toyotas......God forbid!

NOTE TO ALFAVILLE, keep making the excellent reallistic looking car models you folks make, my firm WILL keep buying them!

Karl writes:
....."but you cannot expect GS to hire someone to convert other objects if you aren't willing to take a few minutes to learn to use the program".

now this statement really shows great thought, Karl......Since I think GS should harness the intelligence of people who are ACTUALLY talented at GDL scripting, so as to improve GS libraries, you seem to have made the connection that I need to learn the program.

Karl, forgive me, but how the {censored!!!!} do you know what I have, or have not tried with the program. Have you seen a set of the contract documents my office produces, or the animations, or renderings we produce...that is where my office places its emphasis of effort on, not scripting GDL. We chose to leave that to people who are good at it.

Try staying focused and being helpful in your future responces, as you normally are, and maybe you won't get a reply like this one in the future.

Regards,
Architects Design Forum, Ltd.


RM

[Karl Ottenstein]

Hi RM,

rm wrote:
Try staying focused and being helpful in your future responces, as you normally are, and maybe you won't get a reply like this one in the future.

Sorry about that. I couldn't figure out how to say what I wrote and convey the right message ... and certainly didn't intend to rile. Your response to David, below, was what prompted my reply:

rm wrote:
I don't have the time or inclination to learn code.....to many other tasks on my plate.,

after your initial post that seemed to make clear that you were talking specifically about bringing freely available DWG or 3DS objects into ArchiCAD, not creating new GDL objects:

rm wrote:
1. Am I missing an obvious setting in the translation that preserves material settings from DWG or 3Ds objects.

2. If what I am asking can't easily be done, is Graphisoft working on translators that will solve the problem.

No, I don't presume to know what any one architect needs: that was exactly my point. You seemed to say that GS should presume to know that answer and thus create a better library. I agree on certain core elements - as I said in my post, the library sucks. But, no matter what GS decides to put in the library, it won't be enough for somebody (or many bodies) ... so each of us has to know how to bring in objects from other formats if that is important to our work (or how to create them, or shop for them on OOL - as you are with Alfaville, or hire someone to create them).

Bottom line that I was trying to convey is that there needs to be a good tutorial (perhaps on ArchiGuide until they put it in the manuals) ... but that it takes 10 minutes of learning and the 'inclination' to have control yourself - to be able to freely browse the internet to find 3D objects and in a few minutes add them into your project. It is those objects that you were originally talking about converting...not writing new, custom GDL versions.

rm wrote:
Karl writes:
....."but you cannot expect GS to hire someone to convert other objects if you aren't willing to take a few minutes to learn to use the program".

now this statement really shows great thought, Karl......Since I think GS should harness the intelligence of people who are ACTUALLY talented at GDL scripting, so as to improve GS libraries, you seem to have made the connection that I need to learn the program.

There is a big difference between just making a DWG or 3ds object appear in 3D, possibly with customized materials (your post and David's answer) ... and making a custom GDL object. You specifically talked about "converting" a manufacturer object, not creating a new one equivalent (or better) one in GDL. No GDL guru is going to take a DWG object and make it a meaningful, efficient GDL object - all they can do is the stuff you can learn yourself in 10 minutes ..but you'll still end up with a large (storage size and polygon count) object with minimal customization options.

Peace,
Karl

[Djordje]

Karl wrote:
In your defense, however, GS should certainly have a 3 page tutorial on how to do exactly what you want to do, since nearly everybody wants/needs to do it at some point. Without such a tutorial, hands-on training with a reseller, consultant or archi-neighbor - or someone willing to type it all here - is unfortunately the only option. That is the real problem IMHO.

... not.

http://www.graphisoft.com/archiguide_archive/ArchiGuide_Online_6o/issue20/3ddxfimport.html

http://www.graphisoft.com/archiguide_archive/ArchiGuide_Online_6o/issue20/3ddxfimportadjusting.html

I wrote the above quite some time ago. It probably needs updating to 8.1, but it is a basic How To method.

One important thing:

DXF and DWG models LOOK right, however:

1. They are usually too heavy, with high polygon count
2. They are just dumb polygon models
3. They carry no other data

I agree that each manufacturer of each building component, furniture, etc should have the GDL catalogue - who said marketing?

Lots of converted objects can be found for free on, for example, StudioArkada Web site. Would you use a 3MB chair in your project? I would not. You need at least two of them.

Technically, you need a DXF/DWG or 3DS savvy application to sort the model out BEFORE you open it in ArchiCAD. Going throught the script is quite tedious.

Another problem is the scale and size - the proportions are (almost) always right, but the origin, rotation, etc are usually wrong.

For extensive use of 3DS/DXF/DWG objects, one HAS TO have basic GDL skills.

[Karl Ottenstein]

Djordje wrote:
http://www.graphisoft.com/archiguide_archive/ArchiGuide_Online_6o/issue20/3ddxfimport.html

http://www.graphisoft.com/archiguide_archive/ArchiGuide_Online_6o/issue20/3ddxfimportadjusting.html

I wrote the above quite some time ago.

Thanks, Djordje. Forgot about those.

Karl

[Anonymous]

IMNSHO GS should not be scripting objects at all. They should however be marketing its products, more aggressively than they currently have been and currently are, to manufacturers of building products, furniture, etc. If GS can't see the advantages to the manufacturer (not to mention itself) in using its products, how are they going to be able to persuade them to provide their offering in a GDL library format-!? I probably have over a million dwg/dxf drawings of specific manufactured items and I've never received a single one created by Autodesk. If GS really believes in the concept they pioneered why can't they get this going? Personally I don't think they have another 20 years to ponder the future of their concept. The ArchiCAD vs Revit (whoever) issue is going to be won in the real world; whoever has the most support (Family? Libraries or GDL Libraries) will eventually move to the top of the most poplar CAD list regardless how much the program may draw into the mouth with a force produced by movement of the lips and tongue.

This remains the single most neglected area by GS if they don't do something soon another BIM type application will. The longer they sit and wait for their "big bang" marketing theory to happen they'll find themselves choking on the dust of someone else who actually believed in the solutions they have to offer.