ac9 library - undocumented changes

[schagemann]

our office just upgraded to ac9 and we start to experience some problems with changed library parts (filename and gdl)... which is a bit irritating when you have a large number of files to port from ac8 to ac9.
however, if you load both the ac8 & 9 libraries you end up with a lot of duplicate library parts - that leads me to the assumption that only a few library parts have changed.

so i can not help wondering about the following:
1. has anyone else had some experience with this problem, and can give some advice;
2. is there any documentation from graphisoft about which library parts have changed? if not wouldn't that be something you would expect to come with a new version, considering the library is one of the core elements behind the virtual building concept...

another thing more or less related to the above described:
3. i posted a thread a while ago about a library part viewer (gdl viewer) or at least a catalogue of all library parts, as the library organization is somewhat awkward to work with. well i am wondering what happened to that... http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=3314&highlight=

thanks for any advice/response in advance.

daniel.

[Tibor Szolnoki]

Dear Daniel,

You have raised many important issues here so let me answer them one by one.

we start to experience some problems with changed library parts (filename and gdl)...

I’d like to know more details before I can give you the definite answer:
-Which libraries were loaded?
-What error messages have you received, and in which objects?

is there any documentation from Graphisoft about which library parts have changed

Practically almost every library parts have changed since AC8.1. In some objects we’ve just fixed cosmetic problems while in others we have added completely new features or new working methods (e.g. doors and windows). I think that a complete list of all these changes (more then 1000 objects!) would be frustrating and useless for most users. However I have prepared a short document that contains the most important enhancements in the AC library (INT version only). See attachment.
This article will also be published on GS website community page (http://www.graphisoft.com/community/) as part of the “ArchiCAD 9 Times” series.

if you load both the ac8 & 9 libraries you end up with a lot of duplicate library parts

You shouldn’t load AC 8 & 9 libraries at the same time for many reasons:
- You’ll get “Duplicate Library Parts” error message since texture, background and list template files are identical in the two libraries.
- You’ll also get “Duplicate Names” warning (note that this is not an error message!) since library objects have the same name in AC9 an AC8. Although AC can distinguish these elements by their Globally Unique ID (GUID) there is a chance that you mix them if you not precise enough when you select them in the object settings dialog. For more details on object identification and GUID please read the following Tech Note: http://www.graphisoft.com/support/archicad/archiguide/guid.html

So how can you update your AC 8 projects for AC9?
1, Never load AC8 and AC9 libraries parallel in a project
2, I suggest that you use the AC 8.1 library (and the project library if it exists) in AC9 until the project is finished
3, The best solution is to save an archive (PLA) from your project in AC 8 and open it in AC9. This way you can avoid any missing library parts. Again you shouldn’t load the AC9 library in addition to the project library contained in the PLA file!
4, If for any reason you want to use the AC9 library in your AC8 project please do the following:
- Unload the previously loaded AC 8 library in the Library Manager. (Note: Custom project libraries have to be loaded)
- Load the AC9 library
- AC will automatically update the AC8 object placed on the plan file with their AC9 equivalent (Substitution is based on the objects GUID) however some objects may look different since we have changed the working method of some library parts.

i posted a thread a while ago about a library part viewer (gdl viewer) or at least a catalogue of all library parts

Please locate the Library Preview.pdf document in the Graphisoft Documentation folder. This printable catalogue contains the preview picture and the name of all objects in your AC Library. However I still prefer the Object settings dialog in AC where you can quickly browse through the library by folders or by subtypes. Since AC9 you can also search for library parts with keywords and you can even use wildcards in the search criteria.

[Anonymous]

Tibor Szolnoki :however some objects may look different since we have changed the working method of some library parts.





Tibor, this is unacceptable. If GS or any other part vendor is not capable of maintaining the look of an object in time then AC is doomed to fail. In other words this attitude leads to an impossibility of reusing older projects/details.

When I have purchased AC back my only question was “will the library part transcend version” , I was assured of it.

[TomWaltz]

however some objects may look different since we have changed the working method of some library parts.

Hence the advice to not change libraries mid-project.

Once again, common sense and folllowing the advice of Tech Support prevails.

Would you ever unload one project library in favor of another? No? Why not?

[Tibor Szolnoki]

Adalbert wrote:
If GS or any other part vendor is not capable of maintaining the look of an object in time then AC is doomed to fail.
When I have purchased AC back my only question was “will the library part transcend version” , I was assured of it.

Dear Adalbert,

If you open your existing AC projects in AC9 and load the original libraries (even if they are old ones) the library parts placed in your plan file will be exactly the same as before. However if you load the new AC library into an old project some library parts can be different from the old ones. The reason for this is very simple. We are continuously updating our libraries based on users requests. Sometimes we are requested to add new features to certain library parts and sometime we even have to change their working logic in order to make them better. Due to these changes some objects might not be 100% compatible with the old version. In order to avoid these conflicts we highly suggest that you use the originally loaded libraries with your existing projects.

[schagemann]

thanks for your quick reply guys. please find below my latest findings and also some further information as requested by tibor.

we so far have had issues with the following library parts, which were not replaced correctly:

D1 METAL
D2 METAL
RC STRAIGHT FLIGHT STAIR
STAIRS U-SHAPE
STAIR CONCRETE

Tibor wrote:

If you open your existing AC projects in AC9 and load the original libraries (even if they are old ones) the library parts placed in your plan file will be exactly the same as before.

well, it does with most but not with all library parts.
e.g. it does generate the following error message if you try to replace D1 METAL:

Incompatible types in expression at line 99 of file D1 Metal.gsm

additionally, just before we had an issue with some zone categories where one could not edit zone categories (which where created in 8.1) in ac9 - upon selection they just slipped away through the menu! at the time only the ac8.1 library was loaded. it seems to me that archicad can only handle a certain number of zonecategories, in fact only as much as can fit in the predefined window.
also refer to the following thread:
http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=27254#27254

Tibor wrote:

I think that a complete list of all these changes (more then 1000 objects!) would be frustrating and useless for most users. However I have prepared a short document that contains the most important enhancements in the AC library (INT version only).

again thanks for the quick reply. thanks also for implementing and stressing all the improvements that are "accomplished" by ac9s new features (which stand out even more if you think of ac8.1.. ;0).
"any documentation" did not refer to a list of all these changes and also not the paper you attached. i guess, i thought more of a list giving an idea about the most significant changes in particular in which situations you might have to expect problems and maybe even a solution to resolve the conflict (this assumes that it was tested thorougly before release).

Adalbert wrote:

Tibor, this is unacceptable. If GS or any other part vendor is not capable of maintaining the look of an object in time then AC is doomed to fail. In other words this attitude leads to an impossibility of reusing older projects/details.

Tom wrote:

Once again, common sense and folllowing the advice of Tech Support prevails. Would you ever unload one project library in favor of another? No? Why not?

i think you can argue both ways - yet i do have my problems with the language used... as pointed out common sense should prevail.

can i just say the following: if you consider that some architectural projects can run for up to 10 years or even longer until completion, i think graphisoft should reconsider their approach to updating (& improving) their library parts - especially if there is going to be a new version every year... e.g. we still have some projects which were started in ac6.

quite frankly, i must admit i am also getting tired of apparently testing software for graphisoft due to how they seem to handle the release of "improved" versions - having said that i do realize that there will never be such a thing as a perfect software. however, as pointed out previously there are certain things you can expect (e.g.proper documentation, a certain level of quality in respect to basic features - a consolidated, tested and working package), if you have people relying on your software (and wnat to keep it that way) and paying quite a bit for it - did i mention we also paid for ac8...

to give this a positive spin however, considering the quick replies i get at least in this forum i am confident that a lot of issues might at last be tackled?

ds.

[TomWaltz]

if you consider that some architectural projects can run for up to 10 years or even longer until completion, i think graphisoft should reconsider their approach to updating (& improving) their library parts - especially if there is going to be a new version every year... e.g. we still have some projects which were started in ac6.

I think Graphisoft both acknowledges and accounts for this in their recommended methods of upgrading projects from one version to another.

While personally I would like to see some sort of version ID to prevent the "duplicate item" problem, the method they have provided works quite well in its absence. The recommended method is not ideal, but at least it is effective (at least from versions 7 through 9).

On most projects we have not found a need to load the new library, and simply continue to use the 8.1 PLA library.

On the places where we did not, we realized that if we chose to ignore GS recommendations and use our own methods, then the problem we create is our own as well, and don't blame GS for it.

[Vitruvius]

I append the version number to all my custom symbols - thus I may have a symbol called Symbol_80 in my CustomLibrary_80 and the updated Symbol_90 in my CustomLibrary_90. The only difference may be that I've tweaked a few things to use new Version 9 features.

This lets me update older symbols without running the risk of messing up a lot of older projects.

Though it sounds like it would be helpful for GS to introduce similar nomenclature - that way you could archive your old V8 project and open it in V9 without the duplicates messages (ie you'd have WeirdSymbol_80 in your Archive Library and you could dive straight into using WeirdSymbol_90 from the AC9 Library.

Though one thing GS could look at is a "match parameters" checkbox for selecting a symbol and switching it to something else. For example, a if you wanted to switch WindowSymbolA to WindowSymbolB it should at least transfer the basic geometry.

[Barry Kelly]

Another way of getting around the problem and maintaining only one library for all versions is to use the REQ("GDL_version") function.

IF REQ("GDL_version")>=1.3 THEN ! version 8.1 and above
script for object here
ELSE ! 7, 6.5 and less
alternative script for object here
endif

You can either include the whole script for the object for each version or simply just the parts of the script that has changed between versions.

Sorry I have no idea what the GDL version is for Archicad 9.0 but you can simply do a PRINT REQ("GDL_version") in the 2D script and then view the 2D symbol (interrupt with messages must be enabled in the preferences).

Hope this is of some help to some of you.

Barry.

[Anonymous]

Barry wrote:
I have no idea what the GDL version is for Archicad 9.0

Mine (International Edition) is 1.412 fwiw.

- Stuart