ARCHICAD 19 Reviews

[Laszlo Nagy]

http://www.aecmag.com/software-mainmenu-32/856-review-archicad-19-performance-bim

[Steve Jepson]

stefan wrote:

Steve wrote:

johnadrian wrote:
"Beta testers have told me that it’s a significant improvement and absolutely screams on Apple’s new Mac Pro, which comes with an Intel Xeon processor with up to 12 cores." ". . . ArchiCAD 19 is the only multi core BIM tool that could justify the purchase of a lovely Mac Pro and make use of the cores on its Xeon processor." Thank you for sharing the article it is a good read

Still no GPU with ArchiCAD.

What do you mean? The 3D Window display is fully using the GPU (OpenGL Acceleration). Or do you mean doing more general calculations on the GPU, such as preprocessing data or simulations such as EcoDesigner?

With a full multi-thread approach which seems to have received a huge boost in AC19, ArchiCAD seems quite capable and suitable for current generation of hardware.

But the GPU is being used extensively when using ArchiCAD. If you doubt it, just turn off hardware acceleration in the settings. And then try to look at textures and shadows in real-time.

I was referring to rendering with ArchiCAD.
My mobile workstation came with a general purpose video card and a
2GB nVIDIA Quadro 4000M for use with processing files that are compatible with GPU processing. I use it with Maxwell Render but ArchiCAD rendering is not taking advantage of it because ArchiCAD is not GPU compatible in that regard. ( as far as I know )

Same with ArtLantis 6 rendering. It does a few things associated with getting the rendering set up using GPU but the rendering engine is not GPU compatible. Neither is CineRender as far as I know.

I am relatively ignorant about Open GL, Open CL, GPU, CPU, etc..

What I would really like to know is what the limits are with ArchiCAD as it relates to rendering/graphics computations... so I know how to invest in a graphics card for my next Workstation.
I am considering the Quadro M6000
http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2015/04/09/quadro-m6000/

My strategy for buying computers has been to pick the best graphics card I can afford, and then see what computer I can buy or lease that has that card. If the computer will support the card I want, it will do everything else I need as well. This has in the past always led me directly to the Dell Precision Workstations. I am out growing my little M6600 which I replaced my desktop workstation with some years ago. I think I will go back to a desktop workstation because you get so much more bang for your buck compared to the Mobile Workstations.

I will still be getting the best graphics card I can afford because I am using Maxwell Render which has no real hardware limits, but I will still need to know what cards are beyond the limits of what would be useful for working with CineRender.

How would ArchiCAD/CineRender run on an nNIDIA GRID vGPU ? http://www.nvidia.com/object/virtual-gpus.html

http://blog.digitaltutors.com/dt-exclusive-maxwells-head-render-technology-explains-gpu-prototype/

[Daniel Ward]

Hi Steve,

If you want GPU Rendering inside of ArchiCAD, then you should have a look at the Octane for ArchiCAD plugin. I've been trialling it for the last month and after a bit of a steep learning curve at the beginning I'm producing Renders that our practice has never gotten anywhere near to using either Artlantis or the ArchiCAD Cinerender engine. It also supports Displacement properly which Artlantis doesn't at all and the Cinerender implementation of it is very poor. An Octane Render in ArchiCAD using a spherical HDRi background image for illumination will produce an amazing render with very little effort and you can save all of your render targets with the settings directly into the ArchiCAD View Map.

Cheers, Dan.

Steve wrote:

stefan wrote:

Steve wrote:
Still no GPU with ArchiCAD.

What do you mean? The 3D Window display is fully using the GPU (OpenGL Acceleration). Or do you mean doing more general calculations on the GPU, such as preprocessing data or simulations such as EcoDesigner?

With a full multi-thread approach which seems to have received a huge boost in AC19, ArchiCAD seems quite capable and suitable for current generation of hardware.

But the GPU is being used extensively when using ArchiCAD. If you doubt it, just turn off hardware acceleration in the settings. And then try to look at textures and shadows in real-time.

I was referring to rendering with ArchiCAD.
My mobile workstation came with a general purpose video card and a
2GB nVIDIA Quadro 4000M for use with processing files that are compatible with GPU processing. I use it with Maxwell Render but ArchiCAD rendering is not taking advantage of it because ArchiCAD is not GPU compatible in that regard. ( as far as I know )

Same with ArtLantis 6 rendering. It does a few things associated with getting the rendering set up using GPU but the rendering engine is not GPU compatible. Neither is CineRender as far as I know.

I am relatively ignorant about Open GL, Open CL, GPU, CPU, etc..

What I would really like to know is what the limits are with ArchiCAD as it relates to rendering/graphics computations... so I know how to invest in a graphics card for my next Workstation.
I am considering the Quadro M6000
http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2015/04/09/quadro-m6000/

My strategy for buying computers has been to pick the best graphics card I can afford, and then see what computer I can buy or lease that has that card. If the computer will support the card I want, it will do everything else I need as well. This has in the past always led me directly to the Dell Precision Workstations. I am out growing my little M6600 which I replaced my desktop workstation with some years ago. I think I will go back to a desktop workstation because you get so much more bang for your buck compared to the Mobile Workstations.

I will still be getting the best graphics card I can afford because I am using Maxwell Render which has no real hardware limits, but I will still need to know what cards are beyond the limits of what would be useful for working with CineRender.

How would ArchiCAD/CineRender run on an nNIDIA GRID vGPU ? http://www.nvidia.com/object/virtual-gpus.html

[Steve Jepson]

I have Maxwell v3.1 http://www.maxwellrender.com/
I can render with GPU (CUDA cores) nVIDIA Quadro


Why would I want Octane? Perhaps I should switch?

One of these would be good

[Daniel Ward]

Octane and Maxwell v3.1 would be very similar in terms of performance and output, it's an un-biased CUDA renderer. But Octane for ArchiCAD works in a very similar fashion to the CineRender, as in it works inside of ArchiCAD and you can save Render Targets with your camera positions, render setting etc for each view in the ArchiCAD View map. So as you progress through your design stages you can refresh your images with out ever having to re-export your model. It also supports proxies within ArchiCAD, so for example you can have low polygon objects in your ArchiCAD model, appropriate for working in ArchiCAD, but then you can link them to an external .obj model which then gets used in the Octane Rendering in lieu of the ArchiCAD object.
So probably a similar outcome to your Maxwell Rendering, but if you preferred to work within ArchiCAD exclusively, it might be an option worth investigating.
BTW, if you want to trial it, don't muck around with the demo version on the Octane Website, just ask the plugin developer for a fully functional time limited trial instead. 😉

Basically the more CUDA cores the merrier, so if you have the money for a Quadro VCA set up, then go for it! You can get a lot of CUDA performance out of 4x GTX970's in a standard workstation mother board for a fraction of the money though.

Steve wrote:
I have Maxwell v3.1 http://www.maxwellrender.com/
I can render with GPU (CUDA cores) nVIDIA Quadro


Why would I want Octane? Perhaps I should switch?

[Steve Jepson]

Maxwell has been working inside of ArchiCAD for several years now.
There is an ArchiCAD plug-in for Maxwell. And you can use Maxwell Material in ArchiCAD.

[Daniel Ward]

Well, then whether it's using Maxwell or Octane, the GPU is has been supported one way or another within ArchiCAD for several years then. Neither CineRender or Artlantis are great rendering tools, but the problem for Graphisoft is that if they had of integrated a GPU renderer in ArchiCAD there would have been an enormous outcry from the ArchiCAD community about having to upgrade their hardware to use it.
Yes I know it sounds nuts that someone would own and pay subscription fees for a premium BIM package like ArchiCAD and then not invest money into the best hardware to run it at it's best, but there are plenty of users out there currently running ArchiCAD pretty happily on PC's that are 4-5 years old with fairly basic video cards.
The openGL performance between ArchiCAD 18 and 19 in terms of navigating and editing in large models is huge, even on the same hardware. Checking large and complex fabrication models imported from steel fabricators with was really painful in V18, in V19 they run fantastically even on a reasonably modest GPU, so there is definitely some progress there.

Steve wrote:
Maxwell has been working inside of ArchiCAD for several years now.
There is an ArchiCAD plug-in for Maxwell. And you can use Maxwell Material in ArchiCAD.

[Steve Jepson]

Not really. The Maxwell add-on does two things. CPU processing has many advantages for certain kinds of things done in ArchiCAD. The GPU functions are not taking place in ArchiCAD, they are taking place when the ArchiCAD model is exported to Maxwell render which is then using the GPU functions of my nVIDIA Quadro graphics card. The CPU processing with Open GL is being done with the other video adapter. The Dell Mobile Workstations have two video adapters. The idea is to get the best of both CPU processing for the things that are done best that way and also the ability to use GPU processing for rendering with programs can handle it.

This is just my rather ignorant understanding of it.

[Bricklyne Clarence]

Steve wrote:
Not really. The Maxwell add-on does two things. CPU processing has many advantages for certain kinds of things done in ArchiCAD. The GPU functions are not taking place in ArchiCAD, they are taking place when the ArchiCAD model is exported to Maxwell render which is then using the GPU functions of my nVIDIA Quadro graphics card. The CPU processing with Open GL is being done with the other video adapter. The Dell Mobile Workstations have two video adapters. The idea is to get the best of both CPU processing for the things that are done best that way and also the ability to use GPU processing for rendering with programs can handle it.

This is just my rather ignorant understanding of it.

ArchiCAD uses your GPU for the 3D Window functions when modeling and working in 3D.

That's what the OpenGL implementation entails.

(conversely, your 2D window functions - Sections, elevations, plans etc - leverage the CPU and more pointedly the multicore capability of multicore CPU's (which pretty much all computers are these days))

It's because GPU's have many many more cores (hundreds more) than the CPU's that you're able to have programs handling real time renders (like Octane render's GPU implementation) while still allowing you to model in the 3D window without choking up. On the flip side, GPU's are limited to the amount of memory (or video Memory) they have available to work with (high end GPU's have an upper limit of 4-6GB) which means you're limited on the size of model you can render with the GPU in a Real time renderer to those sizes as well as to the amount of work you're able to efficiently carry out in the 3D window. This limitation typically doesn't exist for CPUs since CPUs typically have theoretically (almost) all of the computer's Hardware memory (RAM) available to them - of which you can have as high as 64-132GB depending on your motherboard, and also the Swap/Virtual memory that it can convert from available hard disk space as need be.

An investment in a good and powerful GPU is a good idea though since - aside from the real time GPU renderers that utilize them these days, programs are also leveraging their great power to help the regular functions.
ArchiCAD 19 is supposed to have better 3D window performance and response time with the new OpenGL implementation, and I'm betting it will be better appreciated and received by users who have more powerful Video cards and GPU's.

[Daniel Ward]

Hi Steve,

the Maxwell Plug in for ArchiCAD is essentially a more sophisticated version of the Artlantis Plug-in for ArchiCAD, with the added feature of being able to get a preview render and being able to tell the Exported File what ArchiCAD materials to link to Maxwell materials when the file is opened in Maxwell.
The Octane plug-in works directly inside of ArchiCAD, at no point do you exit ArchiCAD when you're using it, just like CineRender. So looking at the screen capture below you can see that I have the Octane plug-in running in ArchiCAD and I can still select and edit the ArchiCAD elements. Further you can see that I can select a ArchiCAD object in the ArchiCAD 3D window, I can nominate it as an Octane Proxy Object and browse to an Xfrog .obj high polygon tree object, and that object is the one that gets rendered in the Octane Rendering Viewport. If I navigate in the ArchiCAD 3D Window, the Octane View Port updates accordingly. If I change the ArchiCAD sun setting, the change is reflected in the Octane View Port. If I change any of the ArchiCAD geometry and update the Octane View Port I see the change straight away. You get the idea I'm sure.
All of this is getting rendered in real time off the GPU's you have installed in your PC, the more you have, the faster it goes. ArchiCAD uses which ever of the GPU's you have installed that is identified as the primary device by the system. The ArchiCAD 3D window runs pretty slowly, even in ArchiCAD 19 unless you pause the Octane Rendering process, or you tell the Octane Plug-in not to use one of your installed GPU's.
I wouldn't bother with an Quadro card for ArchiCAD, Octane or even Maxwell for that matter. ArchiCAD won't take advantage of it and the GTX series of Nvidia cards will give you a lot more CUDA cores for Octane or Maxwell rendering for your money.

Any away, whether you stick with Maxwell, or give Octane a try, you'll definitely appreciate a new GPU, you'll notice a huge speed improvement for sure. 😉

Steve wrote:
Not really. The Maxwell add-on does two things. CPU processing has many advantages for certain kinds of things done in ArchiCAD. The GPU functions are not taking place in ArchiCAD, they are taking place when the ArchiCAD model is exported to Maxwell render which is then using the GPU functions of my nVIDIA Quadro graphics card. The CPU processing with Open GL is being done with the other video adapter. The Dell Mobile Workstations have two video adapters. The idea is to get the best of both CPU processing for the things that are done best that way and also the ability to use GPU processing for rendering with programs can handle it.

This is just my rather ignorant understanding of it.

[James B]

Bricklyne wrote:
ArchiCAD uses your GPU for the 3D Window functions when modeling and working in 3D.

That's what the OpenGL implementation entails.

(conversely, your 2D window functions - Sections, elevations, plans etc - leverage the CPU and more pointedly the multicore capability of multicore CPU's (which pretty much all computers are these days))

We use OpenGL also in 2D windows (on Mac, PC I think uses DirectX), so things like panning, input, trace/reference etc can utilise OpenGL to provide feedback. We have also made improvements to speed these up in AC19, as well as with the 3D navigation as already mentioned.