ARCHICAD 20 Announced

[Laszlo Nagy]

See the official announcement here:

http://www.graphisoft.com/info/news/press_releases/archicad-20-a-fresh-look-at-bim.html

There are already a few clips that show what is new:

http://archicad.com/en/

[Bricklyne Clarence]

vortextheory wrote:

Bricklyne wrote:
But I (STILL) love using this program.
It just saddens me to see the way it's going - especially if you're one like those of us in a sea of Revit companies and users and constantly have to swim against the current.
It's become like watching the old tale of the Frog sitting in a saucepan with slowly boiling water as it sits quietly and boils to death, and there's nothing anyone can (or wants) to do about it.

Does anyone know of any rough figures or percentages ACAD vs REVIT users ?
just interested.

By ACAD I Assume you mean ArchiCAD (and not AutoCAD).

In which case it depends on where in the world you are.

Like here in North America (Autodesk's home base) it tilts heavily in favor of Revit and Revit users thanks in large part to a relentless marketing campaign they've waged over the last decade and half and saturating the market (initially with free or bundled copies) of their product and then making it the standard.

In the rest of the world (specifically, in Europe with Nemetschek's and Graphisoft's home base) I'd say it skews a little more towards ArchiCAD but that is rapidly changing since Autodesk has deep deep pockets to penetrate emerging markets and second and third world marketbases (read: Asia and Africa).

And it didn't have to be this way - certainly not where I am - since it wasn't that long ago when ArchiCAD used to be the only (BIM) game in town in most places.

Edit: I should add that you're probably not going to get any hard figures or numbers or otherwise since both companies keep a tight lip on their user numbers.
But based on certain metrics (for example Google job searches and program technical info searches, Job postings in general, courses offered at technical colleges and such) it's easy to deduce which way the current is primarily flowing in various locales.

[Anonymous]

Thankfully ArchiCAD was being taught in the early 2000s and even now in some technical colleges in Australia. But Autodesk with Autocad was first and still is down under. Revit has some good things about it. For me ArchiCAD was the best solution and still is.

I believe if we had a low rise residential branch for ArchiCAD development our workflow would increase. I would expect that these improvements would be automatically shared with a full commercial version.

I am not a fan of the START version of ARCHICAD as there are too many missing parts of the program that I don't like. As I said before I prefer to have Cina Render included but I would also like some file exchanges formats that are currently not included. I don't need or use teamwork as a solo user. Each low rise residential user will have their own specific needs for program modules. For example a LRR user may have need for Rhino and Grasshopper for extreme home design and they should be able to add that module on to a Start Version or more precisely a Solo Low Rise Residendial version, ie for Building Designers and the like.

I think allot of things can be overlooked when looking from our perspective, ie ants eye view of program development than the birds eye view of the high rise commercial world. For example since we have limited resources in comparison to a high rise company and we tend to do more of the working drawings ourselves or in house, as HR Co will out source many parts of the design work to collaborators etc. Hence a greater need for BIM collaboration with the more consultants that a HR Co needs.

One important limitation is that the actual drafting work can take allot longer on simpler housing projects with ArchiCAD as I have found. I also use Chief Architect for simpler housing projects. I think the drafting work can be speed up significantly with a more simple approach to drawing building elements. Yes in AC20 a template is now easier to produce with the improvements in the areas of favorites and library management. I still think there is much more work that can be done to speed up GUI like the way Revit, Chief Architect and other programs work with speed drawing of building element and placing. Archicad and Vectorworks and others are simply too long winded and have too many steps to producing a simple house. Not fast enough for me yet.

[shtarkel]

About performance.. only these - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiIRppr4VwU ?

[Anonymous]

Regarding the lackluster outdated cartoonish archicad library....I look at my architect friends/competitors using Revit and manufacturers are running full tilt to provide them with their products as "library" parts for their models. When so many things that go into the building are specified to not have this Catalog" available to us is punishing!!!!! Archicad needs to be more proactive getting manufacturers to do GDL....and or gets us an .rfa converter. Some obscure European commodity manufacturers products in GDL serves no useful function here in the states. Sorry for the rant but if the guys in Budapest sat in my seat they would know how truly important this is in Building Information Modeling scheme of things.

[Bling Keeta]

Bricklyne wrote:
But I (STILL) love using this program.
It just saddens me to see the way it's going - especially if you're one like those of us in a sea of Revit companies and users and constantly have to swim against the current.
It's become like watching the old tale of the Frog sitting in a saucepan with slowly boiling water as it sits quietly and boils to death, and there's nothing anyone can (or wants) to do about it.

I have used Archicad since V. 4.5.
Like you in Canada, it's just impossible to hire anyone who has AC experience. I have been forced to keep my operation small as I am not about to switch to Revit . A lot of job applicants have not even heard of Archicad. Unless Graphisoft starts to do some serious marketing, I can predict Archicad in North America (maybe a bit better in the US) is on a
certain downslide until it fizzles out completely.

[Anonymous]

We use Modelport to bring in RFA objects after we export them from Revit. If ArchiCAD had a built in importer with a bit more control over the resultant GDL OBJECT then this Revit world would feed the BIM object need. Why GS has not done seems a mystery, especially now that we have a rhino link this would seem trivial.

[Anonymous]

At least I wont need to lose half a day going to the upgrade training this year.
I suspect they wont be fully booked as they have been with previous releases.

[Bricklyne Clarence]

Bling wrote:

Bricklyne wrote:
But I (STILL) love using this program.
It just saddens me to see the way it's going - especially if you're one like those of us in a sea of Revit companies and users and constantly have to swim against the current.
It's become like watching the old tale of the Frog sitting in a saucepan with slowly boiling water as it sits quietly and boils to death, and there's nothing anyone can (or wants) to do about it.

I have used Archicad since V. 4.5.
Like you in Canada, it's just impossible to hire anyone who has AC experience. I have been forced to keep my operation small as I am not about to switch to Revit . A lot of job applicants have not even heard of Archicad. Unless Graphisoft starts to do some serious marketing, I can predict Archicad in North America (maybe a bit better in the US) is on a
certain downslide until it fizzles out completely.

What's even more frustrating (if you consider the lost opportunity) is the fact that most small to mid-size architects here (certainly in Vancouver) are Mac users, and for those not willing to make the switch to Revit (with Autodesk's relentless marketing, and thus having to switch to PC), it means they're forced to choose or stay with the vastly inferior Vectorworks - which is, like the most popular program with Architects here by default.

If Autodesk ever do make a true port of Revit to be a Mac-native program, then it's all over for ArchiCAD's (And by extension, Vectorworks' as well) presence in Canada,.... and possibly even North America.

I've even met Architects who acknowledge that ArchiCAD, in the few times they've tried it, does indeed seem like a superior program that caters to their design sensibilities, but they wouldn't want to switch for fear of not being able to find people to hire who are competent in the program much less who have heard of it - much like your situation.

This is what happens when you depend on re-sellers to be your PR and Marketing arm. REsellers who also sell your competitor's products and who are only invested in their own bottom line.

[Eduardo Rolon]

Off Topic
-----
Been the architect that teaches Archicad at the local University and that coordinates with other firms using AC (as an architect not a trainer) I find the argument about the lack of finding users a big problem not an issue.

If I hire someone I will never trust their "computer" abilities until I see them work and my main hiring decision has never been what program they use. I will never trust a recently graduated architect to really know how to use SketchUp, Autocad, Archicad or even Revit in an office environment nor somebody who tells me that he knows the program. Because of this I will always schedule time for training to teach them how I want things done.

I prefer someone that knows that he does not know to one that think he does.

Since my target is to produce a set of Construction Documents not produce a design done in Archicad what I need is someone that understands how to develop that. As for which tool/software we use, we will use the best one that achieves the purpose.

-----
Anyway Bricklyne why have you not ask to be a member of the Development Program or part of the Beta Testers? In both you could give opinions on what, when and why for AC's direction.

[Anonymous]

Stan wrote:
We use Modelport to bring in RFA objects after we export them from Revit. If ArchiCAD had a built in importer with a bit more control over the resultant GDL OBJECT then this Revit world would feed the BIM object need. Why GS has not done seems a mystery, especially now that we have a rhino link this would seem trivial.

Since I cannot import an .RFA file directly into Modelport I have to have someone with Revit export an RFA object into one of Modelport's acceptable file types which I can then import into archicad and convert into GDL. Pain in the a$$ and ultimately a degraded "final" useable object in ArchiCAD.

Is there a legal reason why GraphiSoft can't or will not provide an .RFA convertor inside of ArchiCAD. The people who watch the board who would know the answer to this question remain silent about this. It is a HUGE downside to working in ArchiCAD. Would GraphiSoft make it happen to make BIG happy? Anyhow if I were in the market for a BIM program today I would not choose archicad for this reason. Cheers