ArchiCAD 17 announced

[Laszlo Nagy]

ArchiCAD 17 is announced today:

http://www.graphisoft.com/archicad/archicad_17/overview/

[Steve Jepson]

Karl wrote:
OT since two people have asked why we have reference lines: Reference lines are critical; do take the time to understand how they are used and can be used.

The reference line for a wall, for example, "anchors" a space-critical surface of the wall (your choice of what you deem space critical). Frequently, the reference line might be the exterior structural face of a composite or profiled wall. By placing the wall with the reference line there, you can change the entire assembly of the wall and still have the structural, bearing volume of the new structure aligned at that position, all in one step by selecting a new wall type. The exterior skins may grow or shrink. The core(s) may grow or shrink, and the interior finish skins can grow or shrink, but the entire structure will align as intended - e.g., outside face of bearing core to outside face of bearing core below / outside edge of slab below, etc.

Also beware when you are making new composites. There is nothing to indicate which side of your composite the reference line will be on. The reference line of the composite will be at the top of the window where you assemble the materials. Knowing this may save you the trouble of having to reassemble your composites to be consistent with what has been arbitrarily designated as inside or outside in some other place.

[Anonymous]

dasneboja wrote:
Am I the only one appreciate new morph mass modeling capability??
This is something that Revit has long time ago...
I was constantly finding better way to start project in ArchiCAD
and finally we have a tool for it!

This new morph capabilities seems nice, but I am not sure if you can use it to model a building out of it as in Revit, where you can directly apply walls, curtain walls, slabs etc to mass you model with that tool.

Anyway really great and useful upgrade. Now connection between walls and slabs will be no longer a problem. I really like association to story height. 3D cutting planes will be useful especially for presentations. Zone tool finally improved to the way it should be. Some library parts are really great, for example wall closure types.

Pity we don't have new stair tool, and pity we don't have option to modify wall to have changeable height. Big minus if we didn't get copy and multiply in sections.

[Laszlo Nagy]

Thomas wrote:
In the demo video
Archicad 17 New Features: 014 - Model-based element display and solid element operations
http://www.youtube.com/embed/KbvnDzzoaqM?hd=1&autoplay=1

the narrator says "the correct 3D contours of model-based elements are displayed on the floor plan" (my emphasis)
and
"not only 3D elements, but also Solid Element Operations, are displayed correctly on the floor plan"

I can't find any statement limiting this to Morphs only (as in AC16) or such.

Seems to me this is what we've been asking for. Even if I have to use the "horizontal 3D document" method, as long as it's the one-click method described, and doesn't limit me in any other way, it should work and eliminate the need for Bricklyne's workaround.

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

This clip can be a bit misleading because of the reason you mentioned. So I have indicated this to the guys at Graphisoft.
So the situation is:
Results of SEOs do not show in Floor Plan Viewpoint for most elements. The only elements it does show is Roofs, Shells and Morhps.
However, it is now possible to create 3D Documents based on the Floor Plan. So you don't need to go to the 3D Window, create a Top View and generate a 3D Document from that; you can do it from the Floor Plan. In this case, since the 3D Document is generated from 3D, the SEOs WILL show.
So indeed, Thomas, this could be a solution to many situations.
The only qualifier is that since it is a 3D Document, its settings will govern the display. So some options that you have in Floor Plan, you will not have in this case. For example, Floor Plan Display Options for elements, like Projected with Overhead, will not be available in this case.

[Laszlo Nagy]

Steve wrote:

Karl wrote:
OT since two people have asked why we have reference lines: Reference lines are critical; do take the time to understand how they are used and can be used.

The reference line for a wall, for example, "anchors" a space-critical surface of the wall (your choice of what you deem space critical). Frequently, the reference line might be the exterior structural face of a composite or profiled wall. By placing the wall with the reference line there, you can change the entire assembly of the wall and still have the structural, bearing volume of the new structure aligned at that position, all in one step by selecting a new wall type. The exterior skins may grow or shrink. The core(s) may grow or shrink, and the interior finish skins can grow or shrink, but the entire structure will align as intended - e.g., outside face of bearing core to outside face of bearing core below / outside edge of slab below, etc.

Also beware when you are making new composites. There is nothing to indicate which side of your composite the reference line will be on. The reference line of the composite will be at the top of the window where you assemble the materials. Knowing this may save you the trouble of having to reassemble your composites to be consistent with what has been arbitrarily designated as inside or outside in some other place.

Steve, are you talking about ArchiCAD 17 here? Or previous versions.
The reason I am asking is that the whole Reference Line, plus Left/Right/Center method of Wall placement is overhauled in ArchiCAD 17. So you always know what is the Outside and Inside of the structure and it does not change when modifying the Reference Line Location.

[Thomas Holm]

Thanks, Lazlo, for the clarification.

I really think that the naming and narration in that video should be corrected too. If your statement is correct, the narration is misleading in a way that will create disappointment and perhaps anger too.

The term "model-based elements" can hardly be limited to just roofs, shells and morphs, without additional information.

In addition to that, the window at the left in the first half of the video, where correct contours are shown, seems to be a regular floor plan view, and not a 3D document view. Nothing shows that this applies only to certain elements.

The wording in narration, headlines and file-naming means that this video brags about a new feature which simply isn't there. I can get floor plan views with correct cuts for roofs, morphs and shells in AC16 today. What I wish for is to get this for the other model elements too.

The new thing in 17 that's in fact shown is just that it's easier to create 3Dcut floor plans than in previous versions. I like that, for a feature that's been essentially the same since Archicad 4 (!), but I see no reason to stretch the truth this way. Archicad is too good to let the marketing people throw dirt at it by lying. I have a feeling I'm not alone thinking like this, so I hope you'll convey this to the right people!

laszlonagy wrote:

Thomas wrote:
In the demo video
Archicad 17 New Features: 014 - Model-based element display and solid element operations
http://www.youtube.com/embed/KbvnDzzoaqM?hd=1&autoplay=1

the narrator says "the correct 3D contours of model-based elements are displayed on the floor plan" (my emphasis)
and
"not only 3D elements, but also Solid Element Operations, are displayed correctly on the floor plan"

I can't find any statement limiting this to Morphs only (as in AC16) or such.

Seems to me this is what we've been asking for. Even if I have to use the "horizontal 3D document" method, as long as it's the one-click method described, and doesn't limit me in any other way, it should work and eliminate the need for Bricklyne's workaround.

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

This clip can be a bit misleading because of the reason you mentioned. So I have indicated this to the guys at Graphisoft.
So the situation is:
Results of SEOs do not show in Floor Plan Viewpoint for most elements. The only elements it does show is Roofs, Shells and Morhps.
However, it is now possible to create 3D Documents based on the Floor Plan. So you don't need to go to the 3D Window, create a Top View and generate a 3D Document from that; you can do it from the Floor Plan. In this case, since the 3D Document is generated from 3D, the SEOs WILL show.
So indeed, Thomas, this could be a solution to many situations.
The only qualifier is that since it is a 3D Document, its settings will govern the display. So some options that you have in Floor Plan, you will not have in this case. For example, Floor Plan Display Options for elements, like Projected with Overhead, will not be available in this case.

[Laszlo Nagy]

Thomas wrote:
Thanks, Laszlo, for the clarification.

I really think that the naming and narration in that video should be corrected too.

They are working on it.

[Thomas Holm]

Bricklyne,

as I seem to be finally joining the "grumpy old men" section of this forum, (see my other post), I'd like to balance it on the positive side by pointing out (for the public) a somewhat easier solution to your problem, that is the workaround of overlaying a saved 3D document view/horizontal 3D cut/ with the regular floor plan on a layout.

Of course it doesn't solve every presentation problem, and I guess you're already familiar with it, but I don't think every novice that reads this forum knows.

With the right settings, this way gets you an invisible and auto-updated layout patch with correct cuts and no need for repeated manual interference like the technique you describe. Still a workaround though.

Edited: This overlay-views-on-layout technique could of course also be used to solve the issue that eduardo rolón names. (together with setting 3D door opening angle to the same as in 2D)

Best regards, Thomas

Bricklyne wrote:
...I can't tell you how many times (even in the last few weeks) I've had to resort to the old work-around of saving a .jpg image file of the top view in Axonometric on the 3D window and then saving that image as a worksheet and then scaling it to the right size by referencing the floor plan through virtual reference and then finally using virtual reference again on the floor plan with that image to trace the correct SEO cut of a cut element just to have it display correctly on plan.
.

[Thomas Holm]

laszlonagy wrote:
They are working on it.

Fine! Thanks!

[Anonymous]

I like the updated Graphisoft website. Would love to see an update to the Ui of ArchiCad.

[Bricklyne Clarence]

Thomas wrote:
Bricklyne,

as I seem to be finally joining the "grumpy old men" section of this forum, (see my other post), I'd like to balance it on the positive side by pointing out (for the public) a somewhat easier solution to your problem, that is the workaround of overlaying a saved 3D document view/horizontal 3D cut/ with the regular floor plan on a layout.

Of course it doesn't solve every presentation problem, and I guess you're already familiar with it, but I don't think every novice that reads this forum knows.

With the right settings, this way gets you an invisible and auto-updated layout patch with correct cuts and no need for repeated manual interference like the technique you describe. Still a workaround though.

Edited: This overlay-views-on-layout technique could of course also be used to solve the issue that eduardo rolón names. (together with setting 3D door opening angle to the same as in 2D)

Best regards, Thomas

Bricklyne wrote:
...I can't tell you how many times (even in the last few weeks) I've had to resort to the old work-around of saving a .jpg image file of the top view in Axonometric on the 3D window and then saving that image as a worksheet and then scaling it to the right size by referencing the floor plan through virtual reference and then finally using virtual reference again on the floor plan with that image to trace the correct SEO cut of a cut element just to have it display correctly on plan.
.

Thanks for the tip.
Someone else (Roberto Corona) also offered a different solution, but I think yours is probably better in the sense of auto-updating with model changes.

And I'm with you in feeling that ArchiCAD is a good enough program (even with its still lagging shortcomings) that Graphisoft really don't need to, and shouldn't be "juicing" their demo videos with seemingly misleading information about improvements in the upcoming versions.

Still, I don't want to give the impression that I'm completely disappointed with this version.
If anything (SEO display on plan issue aside), I quite like the improvements I've seen them make in these two most recent versions and find it encouraging with regards to the general direction they seem to be taking the program.

I just hope they don't forget the meat and potato issues that are still lagging and which continue to plague users as have been pointed out by other people (Stairs, SEO's, GDL Visual authoring and modification interface, interface overhaul) and the improvements they've been making in these recent versions leads me to believe that they have most of the ingredients in place to give us a really great upgrade version in the near future.