ArchiCAD and Revit Evaluation Criteria

[Anonymous]

Greetings,

We're a mid-size architectural firm (50-75 people) located on the East Coast of the US specializing in commercial, educational, higher education, retail, and corporate markets. We've been using AutoCAD and ADT for quite some time now with SketchUp being used almost exclusively for all SD and DD imaging. We've come to the conclusion that these tools have out lived their usefulness.

We've started an evaluation process looking at both ArchiCAD and Revit. Our team (8 people) will be professionally trained by outside consultants so they can competently evaluating both tools.

We need suggestions on what type of information gets included in our evaluation criteria. Has anyone gone through this process with both programs? If so, can you give us any tips or directions on what we should be looking for? What are the current advantages and pitfalls to using either program?

Is ArchiCAD generally better than Revit?

Thanks I advance for any replies. We’ll keep everyone updated on our evaluation process.

mj2

[TomWaltz]

refs wrote:

Bricklyne wrote:
... for Revit users, who claim to know AC, but who really have clearly lacking or insufficient knowledge to make informed enough opinions about it. I have used ArchiCAD for over 8 years, and never once have I ever had to script a single object in GDL, - and in that that also, I have modeled some of the most unusual geometry and objects, with the tools available.

This issue is dedicate to you.

I've been working with Revit during 4-5 months (since ~January/2007), and I can do things (see example attached) that with ArchiCAD I couldn't dream of. I’ve more experience (learning time) with AC ...

You have used ArchiCAD for over 8 years ... You can do it with AC?

I think you're missing the difference between "I can't" and "Archicad can't."

I could document that. Almost anyone on my staff could. Though I might need a little more information (like what's holding the stairs up and how that window won't leak)

[TomWaltz]

refs wrote:
My experience with both:

I have skipped ArchiCAD (and ADT) learned and choose REVIT because of one very important reason: simplicity!

In fact, since 1999, I worked around GIS technology, Bentley parametric technology (Microstation Triforma) and none of them corresponded my expectations. Just Revit!

REVIT principles seat on a well defined strategy which are well apprehended by the user once they start to use the program.

The elements are well structuralized in the following aspects:
- Model Elements;
- View Elements;
- Annotation Elements

Almost all of these elements are represented by "families", easily editable by any user with 3-4 months experience, like me, in contrast with GDL (ArchiCAD) users.

With REVIT, this organization is reflected in their "User Interface" which is quite simple.

I think with ArchiCAD these features aren't clear. Well, at least, I didn't understand them, and their interface it's not straight forward as it has too many icons and options.

I feel like I could almost do a search/replace with "Archicad" for everywhere you wrote "Revit"

"Testing" does not mean you know what you're talking about in regard to how each program functions. That takes multiple years of experience.

At the end of the day, you bought Revit and you like it. It works for you for the work you do. Congratulations. You can now benefit by associating yourself and your ego with that program, along with its benefits and successes. That does not mean that you should be making inaccurate statements about another software in order to make yours look better. Doing so makes it look like you are just clinging to the hope that you made the right decision. You sound almost more like a football fan defending a team than someone making a well-informed argument.

The virtue is not in the user but in the program, believe it.

That's just sad. I would rather 10 good people on a pathetic program than 100 bad ones on the best program on earth.

Another aspect, eventually the most important one: “Parametric Objects”.

With REVIT this is extremely easy with “families”; if I can do it … then everybody can 😉

Now that one I'll give you. I'm pretty good at GDL and I still wish it were easier to make something parametric of your own.

[Anonymous]

I always hate it when Reviteers come over and pooh-pooh ArchiCAD -- "ArchiCAD can't do this, GDL sucks, my CAD is better than yours" etc. We've got better things to do than hide under bridges and ask people what the terminal velocity of a falling sparrow is...

[Anonymous]

metanoia wrote:
I always hate it when Reviteers come over and pooh-pooh ArchiCAD -- "ArchiCAD can't do this, GDL sucks, my CAD is better than yours" etc. We've got better things to do than hide under bridges and ask people what the terminal velocity of a falling sparrow is...

Dang, I was hoping we finally were setting the ground rules for Wes on Revit v. __ on AC for that online comparison...


j

[Bricklyne Clarence]

refs wrote:

Bricklyne wrote:
... for Revit users, who claim to know AC, but who really have clearly lacking or insufficient knowledge to make informed enough opinions about it. I have used ArchiCAD for over 8 years, and never once have I ever had to script a single object in GDL, - and in that that also, I have modeled some of the most unusual geometry and objects, with the tools available.

This issue is dedicate to you.

I've been working with Revit during 4-5 months (since ~January/2007), and I can do things (see example attached) that with ArchiCAD I couldn't dream of. I’ve more experience (learning time) with AC ...

You have used ArchiCAD for over 8 years ... You can do it with AC?

Are you serious? That's the best you can come up with, seriously?

If you don't know how to model this with ArchiCAD, using the primitive objects, SEO tools and objects from the ArchiCAD library, then like I already stated before, and as others in this thread have pointed out to you, the problem lies not with ArchiCAD's design capabilities, but specifically with you and your abilities - such as they are - as a designer and a person capable of learning a program, and solving design problems.

This is a task that would (and really should) take no more than 5-10 minutes for a novice ArchiCAD user to create, let alone one with over 8 years experience.

It's almost tragic that you selected this, as an example, to make your argument of Revit's superior modeling capabilities, but what have you......

[Anonymous]

Don't worry, Bricklyne... many Revit users are indeed covered in hair from head to toe. These hirsute, stocky CAD users lurk under threads in foreign forums and jump out at unexpected times, making obtuse statements as their brains have been damaged by years of experimentation by engineers from San Rafael, California. Pay no heed to them 😉

[Anonymous]

Well …

All with a "spear pointed to the head" of a simple anonymous BIM beginner that dared to choose Revit over ArchiCAD.

I never thought the opinions and ideas of a beginner, with 3-4 months Revit experience, would enrage such a huge crowd of ArchiCAD fans

I'm here with peace (love and unity) 😉

At the moment, I'm being criticized for showing what Revit is able to do and to achieve. I don't quite understand why my abilities ( or deficiencies) have offended you, when they are only the outcome of taking small steps in Revit;

Imagine what I can do in a year or so! 😉

Seems like I have touched a nerve with all ArchiCAD users. I'm Sorry

If you notice I've raised a question when I initiated my post: "My experience with both"
… Without raising any offences or personal attacks (it's for you Bricklyne Clarence). Don't worry; I know I still have some "deficiencies" 😉

I think "objective comparisons" between softwares is possible (without pejoratives adjectives) and very helpful for all BIM user and developers.

We can compare:
- Low-level features (generic operability of the program),
- Medium-level (libraries and parametric objects construction); or
- High-level (API for other platforms, linking with database/ spreadsheet, project management, Cost & Quantity takeoff API’s,)

Without any anger, without any fanatic judgments
"Criticize Ideas, not People (Attack ideas, not people)" … ok?

I think it's helpful, and this overcomes the logic "my CAD is better then yours"... it's from the dialogue, share of opinions that the light is born…

I just tried to present my experience with the two softwares. I showed the objects/pictures to support my decision and I'm just trying to make you all understand that "a picture is worth a thousand words".

I must apologize for the "bad" example that I've presented... 😉… In fact it's an old image taken from another forum, apparently with no interest at all, but it contains one of the strongest reasons (probably the determinate one) why I have chosen Revit for the project we are developing at the moment.

We have numerous situations in the project with curved inclined walls, elliptical...etc (see attached example) which in Revit were easily done in 2 ways:
- With standard walls ("wall by face", applied over mass element)
- Or with In-place family ("Modelling > create >> wall);


In ArchiCAD, I was unable to do this but I do recognize my lack of knowledge with this program… an eight year old Guru ( like Bricklyne Clarence), after numerous personal attacks regarding this question, he confided to me that ArchiCAD did not do that at all, reason why I did not wasted any more time with this program.

I take this opportunity to ask if this is easily done in ArchiCAD. This is a doubt I have and I believe I'm in the right place to ask….it's not a question of ArchiCAD being able to do this or not that makes it better or worst, I just need to understand which tools I should use.

It seems, in this forum, who does not defend ArchiCAD is completely condemned by a form of "Inquisition" and invited to leave this share of ideas and opinions ...

In my opinion, this is not a correct attitude, but I'm not here to judge anyone… anyway, I'll not held a grudge for the people who have offended me, you are all forgiven 😉… God Bless you all ArchiCAD users…

[Anonymous]

Thank you for your 3DS tip, but our objective is to model projects with BIM tool. We have internal 3DS dept ... This works It's not for "renderings". It's to controll properly the project in its overall Plans, sections, quantity takeoff ...

~/archiben wrote:

refs wrote:
... more example

maybe you should consider using something like 3DS if you are designing themeparks?

~/archiben

[Anonymous]

"C"MON ... ARE YOU KIDDIN' ME? ... C"MON ... C"MON ..."


Excelent example, great.

This is a model that, with a little knowledge of Revit, I could quickly do, with Archicad I don't think I could do it ... probably it would take a few years 😉

... but I do recognize my lack of knowledge with this program… 😉

Miki wrote:
Imagine that you have a door that can have several door panel, handle, mulions, trims styles etc. within one object. It is using external objects that represents those styles and connects them together. You don't see those objects in regular library, because they are macros. But when you change the door width the panel, trins, handels etc. adjust automaticaly. And this is very simple sample.

--> Revit nested families

[__archiben]

refs wrote:
Thank you for your 3DS tip, but our objective is to model projects with BIM tool. We have internal 3DS dept ... This works It's not for "renderings".

i guess you missed the heavy sarcasm. doesn't come across at all well in plain text and there's no emoticon.

refs wrote:
All with a "spear pointed to the head" of a simple anonymous BIM beginner that dared to choose Revit over ArchiCAD.

I never thought the opinions and ideas of a beginner, with 3-4 months Revit experience, would enrage such a huge crowd of ArchiCAD fans

my emphasis. the enraging of the archicad audience was nothing to with revit. it was your clear lack of understanding of archicad combined with your saleman-like, annoying demeanour.

~/archiben