ArchiCAD and Revit Evaluation Criteria

[Anonymous]

Greetings,

We're a mid-size architectural firm (50-75 people) located on the East Coast of the US specializing in commercial, educational, higher education, retail, and corporate markets. We've been using AutoCAD and ADT for quite some time now with SketchUp being used almost exclusively for all SD and DD imaging. We've come to the conclusion that these tools have out lived their usefulness.

We've started an evaluation process looking at both ArchiCAD and Revit. Our team (8 people) will be professionally trained by outside consultants so they can competently evaluating both tools.

We need suggestions on what type of information gets included in our evaluation criteria. Has anyone gone through this process with both programs? If so, can you give us any tips or directions on what we should be looking for? What are the current advantages and pitfalls to using either program?

Is ArchiCAD generally better than Revit?

Thanks I advance for any replies. We’ll keep everyone updated on our evaluation process.

mj2

[Anonymous]

metanoia wrote:

Tomtomas wrote:
Please look at Kubuswoning: http://peetjuhsplekkie.web-log.nl/peetjuhsplekkie/images/rotterdam_casecubointero.jpg

Now could you model such house in Revit without "workarounds"? Just using "real BIM tools"? Just be honest.

Actually, you could. You'd have to use the massing tools, and create volumes to represent the building; then skin on the walls/roofs. One non-elegant aspect is that you'd need to use windows for roof objects (which can also be inserted into wall objects) in the walls to get them to be parallel to the slope of the wall. Windows for wall objects in Revit are always vertical -- go figure!

I'm sure that it's possible to model Kubuswoning with Revit (and Archicad, and Allplan ...). This involves some tricks and workarounds to make it work but it's OK for me.

The problem is that it's not "true BIM" for someone ...

[Anonymous]

You see, no one here is trying to say that AC is better in everything from Revit. Far from it. There is a lot of things that AC could do better, just by looking how it works in Revit, but...
When somebody comes here stating that:
- there are things impossible to do in AC that you do with ease,
- the only "real BIM" tools you can find in Revit
- that just because you have to spend a lot of time in Revit to refine its libraries, you probably have to do the same thing in AC, and that means it is essential to know GDL in daily work (which is not)
Then you can expect that kind of reaction.
When you make a statement like this you better check it out, or if you are unable to check it - when somebody is correcting you - admit that you made a mistake and be done with it. There is no point in being "defensive" here.

Good luck to all that feel better with Revit, too.

[Anonymous]

Tomtomas wrote:
I'm sure that it's possible to model Kubuswoning with Revit (and Archicad, and Allplan ...). This involves some tricks and workarounds to make it work but it's OK for me.

The problem is that it's not "true BIM" for someone ...

Pardon me for missing where you're going! ...not true BIM for whom?

True BIM for me is some 3D object you can schedule, see in multiple views, and be part of a significant project that multiple users can work on simultaneously. Would not AC, Revit and AP all fall into the true BIM category?

[Anonymous]

metanoia wrote:

Pardon me for missing where you're going! ...not true BIM for whom?

Please read 4 or 5 last pages in this thread 😉 One guy called refs argued in this thread that modeling kitchen cutting board with a slab tool is crime against BIManity

[Bricklyne Clarence]

metanoia wrote:
.....
Pardon me for missing where you're going! ...not true BIM for whom?

True BIM for me is some 3D object you can schedule, see in multiple views, and be part of a significant project that multiple users can work on simultaneously. Would not AC, Revit and AP all fall into the true BIM category?

.........try explaining that to your fellow Reviteer.......

.....with as much clarity and succintness.

[Anonymous]

Miki wrote:
When somebody comes here stating that:
- there are things impossible to do in AC that you do with ease, (NOT TRUE! I've explained this and the release of AC11 is enough to sustain my opinion)

- the only "real BIM" tools you can find in Revit (FALSE! Who gave the example of the wall under a spiral staircase?! Wasn't me in fact?!!? Wasn't me that admitted that (for me) this was not true BIM?)

- that just because you have to spend a lot of time in Revit to refine its libraries, you probably have to do the same thing in AC, and that means it is essential to know GDL in daily work (which is not) (In fact I have 17h30 with Revit families and I'm able to do wonderful things, do you think this is to much?)

Then you can expect that kind of reaction.
When you make a statement like this you better check it out, or if you are unable to check it - when somebody is correcting you - admit that you made a mistake and be done with it. There is no point in being "defensive" here.

Good luck to all that feel better with Revit, too.

[Anonymous]

Tomtomas wrote:
Please read 4 or 5 last pages in this thread 😉

Oh... Duh! With ya now

[Anonymous]

Well, it seems I’ve touched some soft spots of the program which have affected the “emotional” side of a few people, this was not my intention.

If you look closely, I’ve never diminished Archicad in any way, I’ve tried to make objective critics and I’ve never said Revit was far better then Archicad or even that this was not a true BIM.

I never said that the things I did were impossible to be done in Archicad, this is all based in my experience. I said that I tried to use Archicad but I was unable to accomplish the same things that I achieved with Revit.

I can endure all the "verbal aggressions" but the lack of intellectual loyalty it’s one of the things that makes me sad. I can not allow that you misinterpret my sentences and state things which I never said. It seems we are facing some sort of “illiteracy”, you read what I write but you don’t understand, distorting everything I say.

If you want to convince yourselves that the tools you are using to overcome the problem of parametric is the ideal one, great for you. If it’s so acceptable, why don’t you add a few constructive layers (like Structure, Substrate, etc)??? … this will surely help your objectives to become “more BIM”?! (Yes, I am being sarcastic)

This is a constructive critic. Why doesn’t Graphisoft sort this problem once and for all? Just to sell a few more extra modules? If I was an older user I would have claimed this by now. If you want to keep paying without claiming these improvements, fine…the “competition” is pleased …

Since there are appeals to ignore this BIM beginner just because I decided to contribute with my opinions ... I rest my case.

*: ArchiCAD 11 resemblances Revit; in the next releases will it have “families”? 😉

Good luck to all

[Anonymous]

Maybe I'm just a narrow minded cretin or just plain dense, so please help me out here. Why would anyone go onto the forum of a competitors software and offer "constructive criticism"?

Asking questions to find out about a software is one thing, but to get into a debate on which software is better......why? Me, I would never go on the Revit forum and critique Revit and claim that ArchiCad can do things better.

"touched some soft spots of the program", "“emotional” side of a few people", "objective critics (critiques)", "verbal aggressions", "lack of intellectual" loyalty" etc., etc., etc.

Ummm, so what were you expecting? Thank you for telling us your software is better? We will forward your constructive comments to Graphisoft so they can catch up to Revit? Puhhhleeze, deliver me...........

With great humility,

Don Lee

[Anonymous]

Maybe I'm just a narrow minded cretin or just plain dense, so please help me out here. Why would anyone go onto the forum of a competitors software and offer "constructive criticism"?

Asking questions to find out about a software is one thing, but to get into a debate on which software is better......why? Me, I would never go on the Revit forum and critique Revit and claim that ArchiCad can do things better.

"touched some soft spots of the program", "“emotional” side of a few people", "objective critics (critiques)", "verbal aggressions", "lack of intellectual" loyalty" etc., etc., etc.

Ummm, so what were you expecting? Thank you for telling us your software is better? We will forward your constructive comments to Graphisoft so they can catch up to Revit? Puhhhleeze, deliver me...........

With great humility,

Don Lee