ArchiCAD is dying

[Bruce]

I know that's a controversial subject line, but I believe it's true. Not because I want it to be, but because Autodesk is an advancing monster; ArchiCAD firms are switching to Revit, and Revit-based firms are buying ArchiCAD firms...and switching them to Revit.

ArchiCAD is a great program, but if it keeps going the way it is, I fear it will gradually dwindle until it's finally gone. On a level playing field, it comes out more or less even with Revit (I have done a detailed analysis that has been vetted by Revit experts) - but it's not a level playing field.

In my opinion, Graphisoft needs to do a handful of things to even the odds (yes, I will compare to Revit, as that's the main competition):

1. Rebrand & revamp the UI: CAD is an obsolete term. Even though ArchiCAD was BIM way before the term was even coined, I think the "CAD" in the name does it a disservice. Also, the user interface is old and tired. Should it go to the ribbon? No way. Should it be brought into the 21st century? Absolutely - there are plenty of excellent examples out there. Blender, a free 3D program, is undergoing its second UI redesign in about 5 years. If Blender can do it, Graphisoft can.

2. Introduce type-based elements. At the moment, pretty much everything is instance based. If you place 100 doors 900mm wide throughout the project, you have to select and change every single instance (this is an example, so please don't tell me the workarounds - that misses the point). Essentially, this is extending the attributes database to other objects. This makes project-wide changes so much more consistent, with no fear of missing an element.

3. Easier creation of parametric custom content: A beginner user in Revit can create a basic parametric object by using geometry and dimensions. It is intuitive and accessible. This does have its limits, but GDL is completely inaccessible to any but the advanced user with a programming mind...something architects and drafties generally don't have - otherwise they'd be programmers. A mix of the two would be extremely powerful - maybe an interface similar to Visual Basic, or Grasshopper? Not only for 3D elements, but also for 2D labels.

4. Better labelling & keynote tools: At the moment it's one label per element per view. What if I want to tag more than the ID? What about material, thickness, height etc. Revit is excellent in this regard, and also in the ability to create your label format as specific as you please. Key notes are also critical.

These are only four key improvements that I think are critical. There are many others that I could list, but this post is already too long. I say the above not to criticise ArchiCAD, but to try and help (misguided however it may be).

I could be wrong - I would be happy to be wrong...but the Autodesk monster is advancing...

These changes should be done the Graphisoft way: not to match what Revit does, but to equal and better it.

[Anonymous]

What are you guys waiting for... First VWs, now allplan 2016 is using parasold..AC please fix up your geometry.
http://www.allplan.com/software/engineering/features-allplan-engineering-2016.html

[stefan]

It is remarkable that many of the complaints about ArchiCAD are directed at the many parametric objects that are provided in the library.

I believe this marks one of the shortcomings in ArchiCAD's approach: an advanced, but very technical (coding) approach to parametric objects. Highly efficient (small files, large variations in single library objects) but too high-level for most users. As a result, people rely on pre-programmed parametric entities, which are very flexible, but which are useless once you need to tweak them beyond what is provided (and almost impossible to amend or adjust).

So GS is trying to prepare a comprehensive library of very flexible and thus complex objects, which still don't cover enough ground.

Is it a solution to provide a more accessible parametric environment? For some users, it would be perfect. But I assume many regular users would not use that either (too technical, too far away from the traditional design process and sketching).

I'm looking specifically at Dynamo, which was created as a Revit-addon, is Open Source, was taken over by Autodesk and is now being used standalone and in some of their other software offerings. And it is directly inspired by Grasshopper.

So a good visual programming environment seems a very usable solution for this problem. Anyone able to port Dynamo to the ArchiCAD platform? Would a more modern scripting engine around GDL be an alternative solution? E.g. Python or Ruby or javascript or .NET/mono?

E.g. Unity does not provide visual programming, but through C# scripting, many developers created their own visual programming environment! (for materials, for effects, for AI, for overal scripting). I've recently even seen a video course on how to create your own Visual Programming system for Unity. Would be very inspiring for ArchiCAD too.

[Bricklyne Clarence]

DesignEngineerBIM wrote:
What are you guys waiting for... First VWs, now allplan 2016 is using parasold..AC please fix up your geometry.
http://www.allplan.com/software/engineering/features-allplan-engineering-2016.html

How exactly would switching over to parasolid geometry help ArchiCAD?



I do admit that this (below) did catch my eye.....(*drools*)

Just look at all that Monitor screen Real Estate.......
Just look at it and gasp....




...are you seeing this GS?
THIS is how DESIGNERS work!

(*....although I doubt that is specifically parasolid related.)

[Bricklyne Clarence]

stefan wrote:
It is remarkable that many of the complaints about ArchiCAD are directed at the many parametric objects that are provided in the library.

I believe this marks one of the shortcomings in ArchiCAD's approach: an advanced, but very technical (coding) approach to parametric objects. Highly efficient (small files, large variations in single library objects) but too high-level for most users. As a result, people rely on pre-programmed parametric entities, which are very flexible, but which are useless once you need to tweak them beyond what is provided (and almost impossible to amend or adjust).

So GS is trying to prepare a comprehensive library of very flexible and thus complex objects, which still don't cover enough ground.

Is it a solution to provide a more accessible parametric environment? For some users, it would be perfect. But I assume many regular users would not use that either (too technical, too far away from the traditional design process and sketching).

I'm looking specifically at Dynamo, which was created as a Revit-addon, is Open Source, was taken over by Autodesk and is now being used standalone and in some of their other software offerings. And it is directly inspired by Grasshopper.

So a good visual programming environment seems a very usable solution for this problem. Anyone able to port Dynamo to the ArchiCAD platform? Would a more modern scripting engine around GDL be an alternative solution? E.g. Python or Ruby or javascript or .NET/mono?

E.g. Unity does not provide visual programming, but through C# scripting, many developers created their own visual programming environment! (for materials, for effects, for AI, for overal scripting). I've recently even seen a video course on how to create your own Visual Programming system for Unity. Would be very inspiring for ArchiCAD too.

Why does Graphisoft's solution to this ongoing problem that everyone (at least outside GS) seems to agree is a glaring shortcoming of ArchiCAD, have to be a re-purposed or ported Revit solution?

This is kind of part of their problem with their current strategy with kind of waiting for third party solutions to be developed to plug in or plain plug the holes that they don't address, but for something like a GDL editor or parametric visual object creator, I just feel like it's too complex a task to leave to third party addon solutions (or worse, - ported Autodesk/Revit solutions) to take the weight since we all know just how cobbled and clunky those solutions (Even under the best intentions) tend to be when involving even simple objects like cabinets or doors.

I believe that GS themselves can (if they wanted to) develop a superior solution to what they have in Dynamo with Revit - which retains some of the graphical user-control intelligence of a Grasshopper without sacrificng intuitiveness at the altar of parametric rigor and a sterile workflow.

The problem of course, is that I don't believe it is a priority for them (in terms of their development road-map for the program), any more than the Stair tool, for example, is or has been.
There's this prevailing sense that they are of the belief that GDL coding is sufficient,.....or should be - which, frankly speaking is like getting Windows 10 (or OSX 10.11) and then realizing that to copy files or empty your trash can, you have to go through the Command shell and type in DOS commands (or the Mac equivalent from the Terminal) from LITERALLY 30 years ago.

That's what creating objects in GDL through coding in a visual program like ArchiCAD is like.

Painful.

[stefan]

Bricklyne wrote:

DesignEngineerBIM wrote:
What are you guys waiting for... First VWs, now allplan 2016 is using parasold..AC please fix up your geometry.
http://www.allplan.com/software/engineering/features-allplan-engineering-2016.html

How exactly would switching over to parasolid geometry help ArchiCAD?



I do admit that this (below) did catch my eye.....(*drools*)

Just look at all that Monitor screen Real Estate.......
Just look at it and gasp....




...are you seeing this GS?
THIS is how DESIGNERS work!

(*....although I doubt that is specifically parasolid related.)

You can use ArchiCAD fullscreen on Multiple Displays. With the new AC19, the fullscreen on OSX is like a real fullscreen and you can float a tab in the other display.

What is still lacking is the automatic screen update in the second window. It only refreshes when you click in it.

[Anonymous]

Vectorworks joins the visual programming domain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V6l7zqUG7E

I my modest opinion ArchiCAD would have to follow with similar project.

[Bricklyne Clarence]

stefan wrote:

You can use ArchiCAD fullscreen on Multiple Displays. With the new AC19, the fullscreen on OSX is like a real fullscreen and you can float a tab in the other display.

What is still lacking is the automatic screen update in the second window. It only refreshes when you click in it.

That's OSX. (which has always been the case, I believe)

On PC (where the vast majority of users are) we're still stuck with some clunky work-around (i.e. don't maximize the ArchiCAD window on your primary screen and then stretch it out to the second monitor, which, frankly speaking isn't true Multi-monitor usage.

Honestly, I would give anything to have even the half-assed applied, manual-updating, but TRUE Multi-Monitor capability on the PC side of things.

[Bricklyne Clarence]

nedostizni wrote:
Vectorworks joins the visual programming domain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V6l7zqUG7E

I my modest opinion ArchiCAD would have to follow with similar project.

I think it's embarrassing (or at least, it's becoming so) when even Vectorworks (a sister program in the Nemetschek fold) can develop their own in-house visual programming interface, but we in ArchiCAD are forced to still have to deal with line coding in GDL.

I believe even Allplan have a visual scripting interface, if I'm not mistaken.

Which would mean that if you include Microstation and their Smartcomponents interface, Revit with Dynamo, and now (or soon) Vectorworks with Marionette, of all the big-name BIM programs,,...ArchiCAD is the only so-called "serious" BIM player without a visual programming/scripting interface and still relying on a horribly antiquated system.

Which is bizarre when you consider the fact that in most other respects, it leaves all those competitors behind in the dust.

[Anonymous]

I think you have answered your own question..Before they can bring in Visual programing, AC will have to address the short comings of their modeling kernel.
A couple of other points to consider.
1. IMO our clients couldnt care less about what software you use (thats bad luck for the software companies) and in reality we licence professional users who clients trust, so for software its "horses for courses, I use what's appropriate at that point in time and AC is basically used last for WDs"
2. Now clients are more likely to ask " is that the best solution and show me the proof, rather than, LOL can you make that teal blue a bit lighter in the renderings"
3. Granted we cant do real simulations in AC nor VWs, revit, as the math is too difficult for (AC) users to understand the basics, but that shouldnt preclude you from being able to visually display imported simplified,optimized, data & geometry to (our) clients in your model/presentation/drawings..get the gist
4.If you want proof of the above look beyond this forum and other vendors forums and go to where the real clients are.
5.Finally If you want answers to geometry, BIM, simulations and AEC data then try other google communities..

[arg617]

In my part of the world this is the biggest problem:

http://newyork.craigslist.org/search/egr

Do a search for ArchiCAD - then do a search for Revit.

This is not only due to the fact that kids are learning one and not the other in school (which in itself is a big problem). It's also because major government agencies (clients) are requiring Revit. Graphisoft needs to take this seriously before .rvt becomes the .dwg of the future.