Archicad for Linux

[Anonymous]

Hi,

I think the linux market share will grow in 2005.
I usually work with OpenOffice 1.9, Mozzila, Gaim, Skype, Oracle 10g, GIMP 2.1, Blender, Dia, ArcGIS 9.0 software that run on windows and linux,
I would like to work with a version of Archicad for linux,

Now we only have Building Information Modeling (BIM) software in linux:
- ARCAD 90, from www.arcad.de - only in german i think
- BricsCad, (brings DWG to the LINUX community) beta version, from www.bricscad.com
and a old 2D Software - Microstation 95 for Linux
Does anybody know if there will be a linux version of archicad in 2005?

thanks,
Bernardino

[MarinRacic]

Rob wrote:
I am sure that adopting Linux within our profession would take ages - staff training, where should we get Linux IT-managers from? What about liability/ virus controls and ta-da ta-da. A lot of money to be spent + staff that can barely understand current OS (either Mac or Win).

I agree. Mac OS was there before Windows and it lost its portion of the CAD segment so I don't see a way how a "New kid on the block" could accomplish anything unless there's a huge company with lots of money to spend behind its back. Right now, only Autodesk or Adobe could *try* to pull it off, none other has enough money... and the outcome, IMO, would be a failure.

[Karl Ottenstein]

syber wrote:
redo the interface? how difficult is to make the interface?

You obviously aren't a developer. All too frequently, interface programming requires the most labor. It would be a criminal waste of Graphisoft's limited resources to postpone improvements to the core product to merely port it to Linux.

Karl

[Anonymous]

Making it working on Linux might just mean that it will be compatible with WINE ? Maybe that part is not so difficult.

[Anonymous]

We are not selfish in our request for Linux ArchiCad.

Linux is an open platform. That's his main advantage.
Application you make for Linux can be easily forced to work on any other.
So, I understand your preoccupation about financial things, but think forward
and gradually integrate open source libraries in ArchiCad, and be ready for software revolution!
Open source libraries are constantly maintained and enhanced, and it's free.

At the and I'd like to say that it's not my personal opinion but facts!

[stefan]

nikoola wrote:
We are not selfish in our request for Linux ArchiCad.

Linux is an open platform. That's his main advantage.
Application you make for Linux can be easily forced to work on any other.
So, I understand your preoccupation about financial things, but think forward
and gradually integrate open source libraries in ArchiCad, and be ready for software revolution!
Open source libraries are constantly maintained and enhanced, and it's free.

At the and I'd like to say that it's not my personal opinion but facts!

The "free" in most Linux libraries usually means GPL. This license scheme explicitely demands the user of a GPL-library to follow the GPL license for derived products, which would demand Graphisoft to release ArchiCAD under the same GPL license: free, open-source, not-commercial and the right for everyone to use the full source for whatever purpose they want (but, again, free as in GPL). This is a system that is not compatible with commercial software development.

You could opt for LPGL libraries only, which allow commercial development, but there are far less of them around and the Free Software Foundation is discouraging the use of the LPGL license.

There are some licenses that could work, but then the choise of libraries is rather limited.

It would be a real revolution, but it's not going to happen.

Just look around the web for free, open-source and cross-platform libraries for solid/surface modelling, for support of CAD-documents (and I mean also supporting Windows & MacOSX). How many can you find?
I know a few: There is OpenCASCADE (which is not available for OSX), there is Irit, which doesn't support OSX, AFAIK (I tried, but failed to compile it and it's a pain to compile under Windows), there is CGAL which seems to compile fine under both Windows and OSX, but it's not a full modelling library, there is SVLIS, which is GPL now (but no support for OSX and I had to correct quite a few errors before it even ran on Windows) and there is BRL-CAD, which is released by the American Army under a GPL-license. And I think that this pretty much wraps up Open-Source modeling kernels... Compare that to closed-source, commercial engines, such as Parasolid, ACIS and Granite, which are the ones that are used in most CAD-software. Using these commercial engines alone defines a part of the price of these applications (and does not allow open-source development according to the GPL).

I assume Graphisoft has it's own kernel (something GDL based, probably) but would they open up the sources to be able to use some GPL library?

Commercial CAD software often relies on libraries from external firms: some well-known examples are VBA from Microsoft, LightWorks, ACIS from Spatial and some GUI components. Many of these libraries are integrated in programs such as AutoCAD, Microstation, Revit etc... They simply cannot be legally made Open-Source, without removing all these libraries. I'm sure there are many more, but as part of a license agreement, the company might buy the right to not have to mention the library in a released product.

You might be familiar with IntelliCAD, which has free versions, but precisely these licensed libraries are missing in the free versions (e.g. ProgeCAD LT).

[Anonymous]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but until you will not change any of those libraries and incorporate them into your source you don't have to open your source and still be able to use those libraries. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Look here:

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#PortProgramToGL

I know that:

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#IfLibraryIsGPL

but:

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#CompanyGPLCostsMoney

[stefan]

Miki wrote:
Maybe I'm wrong here, but until you will not change any of those libraries and incorporate them into your source you don't have to open your source and still be able to use those libraries. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Linking an executable (let's say the ArchiCAD-executable) with a GPL-library (let's say some rendering engine) effectively includes the GPL library into the executable and thus turns the whole executable into the GPL... The GPL is effective on the whole of the application if it links with GPL code...

edit:
I think this section applies to this, in the example of using GPL libraries in ArchiCAD:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLInProprietarySystem

[Anonymous]

well maya - cinema 4d are not free but they work perfectly on linux. linux is free OS not every software that works on it must or need to be free its just have to run on linux

[Anonymous]

In answer many of the comments I read:

GPL:
The GPL issues are only if the code is modified. Linking to the GPL'd software doesn't force the proprietary source code to be released, only if the GPL'd code is modified or included in the proprietary code, would the source need to be released.

Software Developers:
The resources necessary to port software to another platform is a major issue and porting is not a trivial matter. This is where a community effort would help lighten the load. Since the core of the Mac is BSD, it would probably be easier to develop a BSD version for Archicad first, the gui interface would be a huge task, but if a skeletal "X" framework for the gui was released with the gui source code, others would be able to work on it. Since less resources are needed to create this port, the price can be a little lower, service fee's stay the same (service is where the money is). Since the cost is a little less, more companies would look at it, thus increasing the *nix user base.

IT Staff:
A decent IT staff can handle Linux/BSD, if your staff cannot, then they need to learn, it will save your company thousands of dollars switching from a proprietary server to a GNU/Linux or BSD server. The savings are not just in licensing, but in ease of maintenance. I handle 47 servers by myself, only two are Windows based and they require more work (patches/anti-virus/anti-spyware/anti-adware) than all my other servers (patches). If the staff knows *nix servers, they can handle *nix desktops.

My Comments:
I find it amazing that certain people believe that professional apps have no place on Linux.
Most major CGI studios use Linux as the OS of choice for many reasons; low price, high performance, flexibility and reliability to name a few. Many auto manufacturers have switched to Linux for the same reasons.
AutoDesk is now releasing software for Linux, they are dipping their toes in the alternative OS waters. It will only be a matter of time before AutoCad is released under Linux, providing enough customers demand it. Pro E already has a Linux version and that is the way many companies go, since 64 bit Linux (>4Gb Ram support) is very mature and stable.
if Archicad released a Linux version of its products(s), they would create a community of developers/users. These people would help debug, fix, and improve the product. Eventually someone would come out with a distro aimed at cad users, with only the tools a cad user would need and none of the other junk, this is how cad software should be released, on an optimized platform, not as an addition to other platforms, imho.

All of my Windows based clients want a more stable platform for CAD. Switching to Mac's requires all new hardware, retraining and new software. Switching to Linux requires retraining, and possibly new software. Linux seems to have a pretty good handle on running Windows apps (Wine/VMware/KQemu/Sen - soon). I've tried the emulators for Windows on Mac and they are way behind Win4Lin9x and VMware in performance. The main CAD application must run natively, which is why my clients haven't switched to Linux.

If archicad would create a Linux version there would be a market that would grow each year.

My 2 cents,

Alex C.

[Anonymous]

why dont they releas a version that can run on emulation for linux? thay are doing it for mac's.