GS clearly does not take the residential architect seriously

[rm]

This is going to be a RANT. So if you are a full time GS apologist, you might want to move on.

This week I upgraded one of my dongles to AC 12, only one! For the majority of my last 15 years of using AC, I have used it on upper bracket residential projects. During that time I have purchased numerous 3rd party libraries for windows, doors, and furniture....because the AC library has had the same pieces of _ _ _ _ for the last 2000 years!!!

This while applications for significantly less money, mostly on the PC side - darn-it, have had features like cabinets that heal themselves when arranged in the plan, windows that actually don't have trim problems and are based on real US manufacturers, doors that don't have trim problems and are based on real US manufacturers, furniture that doesn't look like a kid with a crayon drew them, extrusions, lathes, and sweeps that can be rotated and adjust in 3D, like Objective can do. Obviously the objects should be location friendly, I don't mean to suggest every country should adopt the US objects as standard.....OK, done being politically correct.

I have personally been told by the GS CEO when v9 was out, that by issuance of v11 there would be a "new" and well sorted out library that would be "thoroughly" tested. BS.....I have v12, and I found problems with the windows after working with them less than 5 minutes.....see the attached image, so you know I'm not blowing smoke.

What the heck does it take for GS to build a decent library? Let me tell you, I will have to go kicking and screaming to Revit, but if thats what it takes to access a decent library, I will consider it. Currently you can't access anything on the Google 3D warehouse directly into AC12, and there is NO indication from GS when we will see the plug-in again, if at all. And if your on the Mac side, forget it, you don't have a prayer as the plug-in only worked on the Windows side of AC.

Obviously, if I have stuck with this program since v4.1 I think it is reasonably good. What I find inexcusable is GS willingness to keep putting out lousy standard library sets. In the world of BIM and Photorealistic renderings, GS should be providing a solid realistic library set.....they are not even close!!!!!

I have forwarded the bug to GS through tech support. I am shocked I found the bugs with the windows in less than 5 minutes of using the AC12. God knows what I will find when I dig in further with the doors.

For what I just spent on an upgrade, I am absolutely torqued at how lacking this library still is. The truth is, even 3rd party libraries are very limited - they hardly exist. Clearly GS has not been successful in getting buy-in from US manufacturers to create libraries the way AutoDesk has with Revit. While there are some very generous users out there that give away some very good objects ( THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU ) the majority of GDL objects available just are not realistic looking or don't stay current with AC.

I have suggested this before, and I will say it again. GS there are some really smart, good GDL gurus out there. Get off your wallet and hire these people to ONLY design objects or work with manufacturers of real Plumbing Fixtures, Light Fixtures, Doors, Windows, Furniture, etc....and pay them to test the objects thoroughly. I'm guessing a 1 million dollar investment in the libraries would yield something far superior to what you provide now....I guess 50 dollars might do that as well

.....hey Mr. Gallello - you getting any of this?

[Erika Epstein]

Karl wrote:
Personally (shall we have a poll?), I probably spend more time futzing with door/window/object parameters and patches than I do with the entire rest of the model and document set. So, for me, a solid (non-buggy), useful library would make me more productive than any feature GS could add to the program itself.

Cheers,
Karl

I agree with what Karl is saying. I think non-buggy functional libraries are a must for any software. When someone of Karl's qualifications and experience say's the best solution would be for GS to hire more qualified people to accomplish this, I hope they hear and act.

[Anonymous]

Karl wrote:
I tend to lean towards Robert's suggestion that GS just has to hire more GDL specialists and to make QA of the library a higher priority. They have to see how that would pay for them, though.

I am more split on this issue. While it is essential that GS provide basic libraries to make the program functional out of the box. It is unrealistic for them to attempt to satisfy even a major part of the world's needs for standard parts.

What is desperately needed is an improved environment/process for creating custom components/parts/assemblies and a clearly delineated set of standards and guidelines for doing this. Ideally the GS parts should set the "gold standard" for properly designed and engineered parts (a "simple title" should not require hundreds of lines of code) and serve as examples to everyone else of how things should be done. This way we would all have a solid base to start from and it would be much easier for everyone to produce consistent libraries of high quality.

[rm]

Karl wrote:
Hi Braza,

Personally (shall we have a poll?), I probably spend more time futzing with door/window/object parameters and patches than I do with the entire rest of the model and document set. So, for me, a solid (non-buggy), useful library would make me more productive than any feature GS could add to the program itself.

Cheers,
Karl

AMEN!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Karl wrote:
....I tend to lean towards Robert's suggestion that GS just has to hire more GDL specialists and to make QA of the library a higher priority. They have to see how that would pay for them, though...

Controversially, I'd like to suggest Graphisoft completely abandon the 100% GDL based windows and doors, and focus their efforts on making them into a 'system tool' like the curtain wall tool.

The doors and windows have absolutely no self-awareness at the moment, completely going against the BIM methodology that AC is supporting. The contents of a D/W GDL object (ie the frame, sashes and glass) only look (more or less) correct is because a GDL programmer has formed some unintelligent prisms to vaguely resemble the component it is meant to mimic. It is impossible to get it to do something it has not been specifically designed to do, which is where a lot of the problems stem from - the programmer had not realised you wanted more than 4 mullions, for example.

A system-based door/window (s0d it, lets call it the Opening Tool , they are essentially the same thing!) would be intelligent enough to know what components it is made from and how they relate to each other, and would therefore allow you to adjust and change their specification, position and number individually with relative freedom like you can with a real door/window.

If it actually works and has a simple, quick and elegant interface, it would solve so many (all?) of the problems that the current doors and windows have.

I'd like to think it was just easier to implement the less useful curtain wall tool to AC first, rather than a much needed D/W tool, as it needs no plan-based wall connections and skin turning options. It would also give them at least another year to perfect it! (AC13 please?! )

[Anonymous]

The latest posts really point out the minimum - GS needs to create the framework in which building elements can be defined. Establishing the parameters and rules is mandatory. In another thread on ACTalk there was a reference to a AECBytes article about the future of BIM and if the principles were applied to libraries, many of the complaints about operations would be solved by getting to the basic parts of the assemblies and allowing for assembly of complex elements with greater ease. The stair tool is a good place to look: design and set the treads-risers and structural frame as a base (AC does this part fairly well) have the rest of the components come from a separate source - railings, interconnections, landings and allow all to join as they do in the field. Doors and frames and the related wall holes similar - each part assembled from a component that actually works.

Perhaps I am too simplistic, but the building is still a kit of parts - assembled in a unique way to create the architecture.

Lew Bishop
MBP17 2.16 Dual/OS X 10.5/ AC 12

[Anonymous]

Peter wrote:
Controversially, I'd like to suggest Graphisoft completely abandon the 100% GDL based windows and doors, and focus their efforts on making them into a 'system tool' like the curtain wall tool.

It's not necessary to dump GDL to have assemblies. I have long argued for the ability to attach multiple macros to single assemblies (such as doors, windows, stairs...). This way it would be possible to script a casing type part that can be combined with a door panel, jamb type and hardware set to define a door assembly. It should then be possible to name and catalog the assembly types for the project which would combine detailed automatic scheduling with a kind of favorites on steroids.

[Dwight]

Peter wrote:
I'd like to think it was just easier to implement the less useful curtain wall tool to AC first, rather than a much needed D/W tool (AC13 please?! )

I'd like to think that it is easier for marketing to point to a new tool and say "Lookie here, rubes: Curtain Walls!" rather than claim "Hey, we fixed the window tool."

[Anonymous]

Dwight wrote:

Peter wrote:
I'd like to think it was just easier to implement the less useful curtain wall tool to AC first, rather than a much needed D/W tool (AC13 please?! )

I'd like to think that it is easier for marketing to point to a new tool and say "Lookie here, rubes: Curtain Walls!" rather than claim "Hey, we fixed the window tool."

That's why we need the new assembly managers. New features and the doors and windows can't really be fixed otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Of course it is always easier to just say Looky at the great new stuff --- BUT what I have been hoping for for the last 14 years is for someone at GS to say "HERE ARE LEGIT DOORS, WINDOWS, STAIRS ----- THEY WORK" I guess it is just too much to hope for.

Lew Bishop
MBP 17 2.16Duo/ OS X 10.5/ AC 12 US

[rm]

LewBishop wrote:
Of course it is always easier to just say Looky at the great new stuff --- BUT what I have been hoping for for the last 14 years is for someone at GS to say "HERE ARE LEGIT DOORS, WINDOWS, STAIRS ----- THEY WORK" I guess it is just too much to hope for.

Lew Bishop
MBP 17 2.16Duo/ OS X 10.5/ AC 12 US

Lew,

Quit being so unreasonable