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Lisbon Municipality: DWF support in ArchiCAD

Anonymous
Not applicable
In November 2007 Lisbon's Municipality introduced Autodesk DWF as the standard file format for file sharing and interchangeability, with the approvals of a Law. As a result of that all projects on this municipality must be submitted in this format or else they will be rejected. Although we understand that this modernization process was somehow unavoidable, the chosen file format introduces several problems. In fact, because it is an Autodesk proprietary file format, several other software are unable to correctly meet the municipality standards (for example, also Autodesk's conversion software isn't available for Mac OSX). It's my conviction that by doing so the Lisbon Municipality has excluded and hurted several architects, including ourselves.

As they claim, the introduction of DWF and the consequent simplification of procedures is considered a success and is now being introduced in several other municipalities in Portugal and showcased in other countries.

We know that several costumers and consultants have provided feedback through, Archicad's reseller in Portugal, without results (specially in the Mac platform). We think that Graphisoft should provide a definitive solution to the problem in order to protect their customers. Meanwhile, if that's not possible, Graphisoft should negotiate an exception or transition period.

we've been told that there is a ongoing process against Lisbon's Municipality in the European Court of Justice, so far with no results. That's one of the possible solutions, other solution would be suggesting other similar non-proprietary file formats (DWG, PDF or IFC, like in Denmark), but I believe that the best solution should pass by the upgrading of Archicad to correctly export DWF, because it seems to me that Lisbon is not turning back on this decision.

The following are the problems we are facing when trying to meet the required standards:
- when publishing a layout the resulting DWF will be out of the paper;
- inability to export all layouts as a single DWF;
- layer visibility;
- we are requested to put doors and windows in separate layers. They also request that the zone name and the zone area are in separate layers but I think this one would be extremely hard to accomplish since in Archicad they are the same object;
- 1 unit should equal 1 meter;
- the most difficult part to accomplish is that they demand that the paper space is in the model space scale (one should be able to take the correct measurements in the layout, not the scaled ones - for example in 1/100 scale 1 cm would result in 1 meter not 1 cm).

So far the only way we found to do this is:
- export layouts in DWG using an appropriate translator,
- open the DWG and rescale it to the correct scale,
- finally use Autodesk's software in a PC and convert it to DWF.

Please understand that:
- We don't own a PC, I'm not sure I want one;
- We use Archicad and we don't know how to work with Autocad, weI don't want to learn it, and we're not definitely planning to buy their software.

We figure that the best solution is to upgrade Archicad with a translator, such as the one for DWG and DXF, where one could adjust the output of this file format to meet all of this requirements.

We hope that our contribution is appreciated.
22 REPLIES 22
Erika Epstein
Booster
Ah, well, all this is easier said than done. We are all struggling with this issue of pushing for IFC and interoperability so everyone can work smart in their software of choice.

Keep up the fight.
Erika
Architect, Consultant
MacBook Pro Retina, 15-inch Yosemite 2.8 GHz Intel Core i7 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
Mac OSX 10.11.1
AC5-18
Onuma System

"Implementing Successful Building Information Modeling"
ternullomelo
Newcomer
The problem is that IFC isn't suitable for what they're doing. They use DWF because it's also based on XML. To understand the difference here is a good link: http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=2694038&linkID=9240615

Also i checked again and it seems that (at least according to Wikipedia!) DWF is an open format:
"DWF is an open file format. Autodesk publishes the DWF specification and makes available C++ libraries for any developer who wants to build applications around the DWF format, with the DWF Toolkit. Furthermore, DWF is based on other industry standards such as ZLIB, XML, and common image formats."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TERNULLOMELO ARCHITECTS

Estaleiro Naval Rocha do Conde de Óbidos 1399-036 Lisboa Portugal

T 00 351 21 391 59 98
F 00 351 21 391 59 97

http://www.ternullomelo.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TERNULLOMELO ARCHITECTS

Estaleiro Naval Rocha do Conde de Óbidos 1399-036 Lisboa Portugal

T 00 351 21 391 59 98
F 00 351 21 391 59 97

www.ternullomelo.com
ternullomelo
Newcomer
Before you correct me.
I'm aware of ifcXML... but they still want the drawings... maybe one day we'll give them the model.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TERNULLOMELO ARCHITECTS

Estaleiro Naval Rocha do Conde de Óbidos 1399-036 Lisboa Portugal

T 00 351 21 391 59 98
F 00 351 21 391 59 97

www.ternullomelo.com
Anonymous
Not applicable
I agree that Graphisoft should offer better DWF support, both 2D & 3D. I know it feels a bit like sleeping with the enemy since Autodesk wants companies to support this standard to support its bid to create the PDF of technical documents, but as long as it remains an open standard I don't think this is so bad.

The situation in Portugal makes this even more urgent. The problem is that there isn't really any good alternative out there as far as I can see. I don't see municipalities taking BIM models for design review any time soon and there is no other 2D open format that supports world dimensions.

I don't know how difficult this would be for GS to implement, but it clearly is very important.
Erika Epstein
Booster
My mistake.
Erika
Architect, Consultant
MacBook Pro Retina, 15-inch Yosemite 2.8 GHz Intel Core i7 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
Mac OSX 10.11.1
AC5-18
Onuma System

"Implementing Successful Building Information Modeling"
Anonymous
Not applicable
I too stand corrected, but agree with Matthew above
Laszlo Nagy
Community Admin
Community Admin
As far as I am concerned, I have not been debating the legitimacy of the request.
I just have some idea of how software development works and I know that from wishing for a feature to its implementation can take time - a lot more than a couple of weeks or months.
So I offered solutions for the meantime.
Loving Archicad since 1995 - Find Archicad Tips at x.com/laszlonagy
AMD Ryzen9 5900X CPU, 64 GB RAM 3600 MHz, Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB, 500 GB NVMe SSD
2x28" (2560x1440), Windows 10 PRO ENG, Ac20-Ac27
owen
Newcomer
DWF is an open file format ... Autodesk supplies the specs and C++ libraries. Which is more than can be said for DWG.

So as Matthew said .. i think this is a good thing. It is totally reasonable for government bodies to request data in a consistent format and at least they have settled on an open standard unlike the Revit format some states in the US are thinking about mandating for 'BIM' data.

It is up to Graphisoft to fully implement DWF if they want to be competitive - they are the only roadblock to their users on this subject.

I also note this DWF mandate is not just Lisbon but the whole of Portugal since 2008? ArchiCAD seems to be doing well in Portugal, so you would think Graphisoft would really be doing something about DWF. Another one of those 'what the hell are they thinking' moments ...
cheers,

Owen Sharp

Design Technology Manager
fjmt | francis-jones morehen thorp

iMac 27" i7 2.93Ghz | 32GB RAM | OS 10.10 | Since AC5
Anonymous
Not applicable
ternullomelo wrote:
I don´t get it... is it so hard to do this?
Probably harder than installing Windows on Boot Camp and running that free AD software.
Anonymous
Not applicable
I do think GS really needs to amp up their efforts on interoperability. I would like to see both 2D and 3D DWF support (in and out) as well as the ability to publish and hotlink all supported file types. A tall order I'm sure, but it costs me only a minute to wish for it.
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