Patches for wall junctions

[Anonymous]

We're currently working on a development using a number of modules for flat types, and have the usual problem with wall junctions not "cleaning up", epecially T-junctions.

Where the walls are part of the modules there seems to be no chance of a proper junction - even for a straightforward L-junction with 2 identical wall types.

I've been using patches to resolve this, which is beginning to feel very much like plastering band-aids all over the drawings.

The problems with patches seem to be:
1. Layering is not honoured, lines on layers included in the patch remain visible when the layer is turned off.
2. There is no way of updating a patch, other than deleting and starting again
3. The pick points of the patch are only its corners - so you can't accurately position a patch unless a patch corner coincides with a junction on the drawing. This is hard to achieve because the patch is best done with a margin to ensure that lines near the edge are included and visible.

I've been experimenting with using modules instead of patches. Since I noticed that the patch automatically adds an 'Airspace' fill as a mask, I've included this in the module. This approach overcomes the above problems, and has the additional advantage that the modules are more readily available to different drawings. However, for some reason the 'Airspace' fill no longer masks the underlying junction. Or, at least, not in every case. This is irrespective of the display order set for the 'patch' module or for the underlying module.

Has anyone had any success with this, or any ideas?

[Anonymous]

I've managed to answer one of my own questions.

To fix the 'display order' problem, the walls have to be on the lowest level within the module. Then the 'patch' module seems to work, and has the added advantage that it doesn't inadvertently mask other adjacent items, such as furniture or electrical points if these items are kept on higher levels.

(I should have said in my original post that all our walls are composites, and have skin priorities set.)

I would rather not have to plaster 'band-aids' all over the drawings, so I'd still be interested in hearing how others manage this problem!

[Laura Yanoviak]

See Fixing Wall Corners With Columns on James Murray's site -- very clever.

[Stress Co_]

Keith wrote:
2. There is no way of updating a patch, other than deleting and starting again

I assume your using the Patch tool (Document> Document extras).

Select the "patch object".

Drag a copy off to the side (so it's easier to see)

Edit> Reshape> "Explode (the copy) into the current view" (select "keep drawing primitives only")

Suspend Groups and Delete the lines or fills you want to get rid of.

Enable Groups and Select the remaining "exploded" object.

File> Libraries and Objects> Save selection as.... Give it the same name as the original patch.

Delete the copy.

One wonders if starting over would probably take less time.

Keith wrote:
3. The pick points of the patch are only its corners - so you can't accurately position a patch unless a patch corner coincides with a junction on the drawing. This is hard to achieve because the patch is best done with a margin to ensure that lines near the edge are included and visible.

Place "hotspots" at the points you want. Then create the patch. The hotspots will become pick points.

It seems the only advantage to using patches is if you need to duplicate the same patch many times.

I really like James Murray's method.

Thanks Laura for sharing the link.... I'd never seen that method.

[Barry Kelly]

Keith wrote:
The problems with patches seem to be:
1. Layering is not honoured, lines on layers included in the patch remain visible when the layer is turned off.

No because the patch just becomes an object and objects don't have layers.

Keith wrote:
2. There is no way of updating a patch, other than deleting and starting again

If you can select exactly the same marquee area (ie place hotspots before creating the patch then you can simply save with the original name. This will replace the original patch object and all placed instances will update.

You can also open the object and amend the drawing in the 2D symbol window.
You maye have to turn the fragments (layers) on to see the entire object.
Saving this will again update all placed instances of the patch.

Keith wrote:
I've been experimenting with using modules instead of patches. Since I noticed that the patch automatically adds an 'Airspace' fill as a mask, I've included this in the module. This approach overcomes the above problems, and has the additional advantage that the modules are more readily available to different drawings. However, for some reason the 'Airspace' fill no longer masks the underlying junction. Or, at least, not in every case. This is irrespective of the display order set for the 'patch' module or for the underlying module.

The patch has an parameter setting to turn on or of the opaque background - does this help?

Barry.

[Anonymous]

Not sure how this can solve the display in views with different "Partial Structure Display options".
It is a nightmare for me .. the solution we are using is that to focus on one of those sets " lets say that mostly the plans are 1:100 and in those and "core only is needed " " I correct those the junctions for those drawings using hatches, lines " never used patches to be honest as its not that helpful for me , I wouldn't have the same intersection more than once usually " and then in enlarged drawings I use different sets when needed. IT IS REALLY HARD

[Anonymous]

Thanks, guys, for the tips and the method of updating patches. (Don't know why that didn't work for me the first time)

I've decided to stick with "module patches", since I can put a solid fill over the wall on a layer that can then be switched on or off to match the display type (solid walls, or skin lines & cut fills)

The attachment shows the kind of junction that we're trying to resolve. Still can't help feeling there should be an easier way!

[Anonymous]

We've been soldiering on with modules, composites and patches, and I'm really wondering whether we're using the right strategy.

Our modules all contain the external wall composites, and these prove the biggest headache at wall junctions, because we need a huge number of different patches to cover each of the different junction types.

Although my perception is that, by creating composites and modules, there should be a huge saving in drafting time; the reality seems to be that there is so much effort involved in 'patching' that it would be quicker in the end either to

a) draw the external walls separately from the modules (though I think we would still have patching issues where different composites meet)
b) not use composites so that the basic wall elements would join up properly
c) draw all the walls in 2D using lines and fills. I mean, like in the old days of Autocad, because it seemed a lot quicker than this!!!

I'm really interested to know what strategy other people use.

[Anonymous]

This is an illustration of what I mean.

Only 2 of the junctions are repeated.