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Anonymous
Not applicable

!Restored: Success = getting new customers

I saw some documents to compare between Revit and AC.
I study Revit from own website.
It is just copy from AC!!

I used to work with AC (and very satisfied, and like many friends from AC-forum).
As AC-user I hope, AC must be better than Revit for Architects.

I have not used Revit, but just seen from Website.
The web-site from Revit is so nice, that I must believe, Revit should be better than AC.

I like to know your opinions and also opinions from GS.

Thanks
368 Replies 368
Rakela Raul
Participant
Microstation does handle uberprojects well. It's hard to learn it -- and are you thinking about using Microstation in 3D -- Triforma and all that? -- because that's a different matter. It's really hard to learn and use. We sell it too... but no one's buying it here
try engineering large companies, government, department of transportations, etc.......regarding the architectural software in bentley, i dont believe they care much, they make the money in engineering.

i wouldnt mind fixing triforma for greg though !!!

and thx wes for sharing really good stuff
MACBKPro /32GiG / 240SSD
AC V6 to V18 - RVT V11 to V16
Anonymous
Not applicable
As you can imagine, the Revit vs AC debate goes on over at the Revit forums as well. At the end of this post I'm copying a recent post from AUGI that bothered me. I for one like to see companies take on weaknesses in their software head-on, and leave any hubris at home. I post this because it's better for Revit users if there really is an alternative to Revit, and because you people, as long-term AC users, deserve to have your product improve without someone's puffed head getting in the way.

Graphisoft can't rest on its laurels with the idea that 'AC is good: our existing user base thinks so' because new users may not have the same opinion. New users looking throughly at both Revit and AC are often coming to the conclusion that Revit does what AC does, but more simply and more intuitively; and does more, especially with regards to creating your own custom objects. Given that the cost of learning often exceeds the cost of the software itself, the all-important task of gaining NEW customers is all about making your software easier to learn, more intuitive, and more polished.

Here's the post:
  • Funnily enough i had the CEO of Graphisoft recently visit our firm to find out why we chose Revit and skipped ArchiCAD. When i explained that the big reason for us was Revits simplicity and features, they just didn't get it. I had to physically run through how easy doing things in Revit was compared to ArchiCAD and all they could do was argue how Archicad did the same things. It was difficult to point out that "yes it does" however it is simpler and easier and more intuitive in Revit.

    The only point they eventually had to concede (and let me tell you even then it took a while for them to get it) was that we can model parametric families extremely easily. Hell we do stuff with our families that ArchiCAD can't dream of at the moment. Lets put it this way, the comment of "are you telling me you didn't need to get anyone to script these sorts of families for you?" almost made me laugh. Even then all they could argue was there family libraries were comprehensive while Revits weren't. They did have to concede the fact that i really didn;t care about that as i could make anything i wanted in Revit, yet not in ArchiCAD.

    It was an interesting meeting by any means. All i got out of it really was that Graphisoft has its head stuck in the sand with regards to Revit in the past. Having 20 years experience in BIM does not make your software any better IMO. I got the impression that they honestly could not beleive that anything else could do things better. I think they had been telling themselves that Autodesk was pushing an inferior product to theirs and was killing them due to market advantage rather than a better application. At least they left realising they did need to do a lot of work to remain competitive.

    I think ArchiCAD wil continue to play catch up for a while yet, but i hinestly thing another major re-coding effort would be required on their behalf to really bridge the gap.

The original post can be read here:
http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?p=346248#post346248
TomWaltz
Participant
That reminds me of a response I got once.

Back in early 2003, I co-authored a report to the partners of Kitchen & Associates that said that their CAD software, Arris, was badly outdated. Its feature set was severely lacking and its interface was so archaic it was difficult to learn. To give you an idea, my own in-house development over a one-year period had more new features in it than their Version 8 did (Arris came with much of its source code, allowing for really serious modifications).

I outlined major benefits of Microstation Triforma, Revit, and Archicad, including feature sets, operating systems, user bases, and training availability.

When work got to the CEO of Sigma Design (maker of Arris) that a major client was going to leave them, he asked for a chance to write a rebuttal to the report.

What I expected was a well-thought out reponse, including a development road map that would assure us of better future development.

Instead, the response was an attack against me and the other co-author, saying we did not know Arris well enough, were not using it right, and that for a hefty fee, they would come and educate the company. He questioned why we were so attached to these other programs and what features they could ever offer over his dear product.

His response enraged the partners so much that any doubts they had about whether Sigma would improve their development went right out the window.

Sometimes I wonder if the higher management of companies like that have a hard time understanding why anyone else would ever choose their competition over them. To me, I would think such understanding would be a top priority.
Tom Waltz
Chazz
Enthusiast
metanoia wrote:
At the end of this post I'm copying a recent post from AUGI that bothered me
Holy smoke! If true, it's a very damning indictment of the leadership at GS. However, that attitude seems consistent with the products they release. Things are getting harder and harder to do in AC. More options but not really what I would call more powerful software. Doing certain simple things like schedules, barrel vaulted dormers, weird (but common) geometries, keynoting, labeling, bla bla bla.

It was amazing to see the Vectorworks demo of schedules and Window and door building. So much more rational, intuitive and powerful. And it could still be a lot better.

The thing that makes software great is when it does something hard or tedious automatically. Dimensioning is a great example: Very tedious, yet using AC's auto dimensioning tool always results in things I don't want. And it hasn't improved in years. Ugh!

Sitting on laurels indeed. Soon they will be saying "what laurels?"
Nattering nabob of negativism
2023 MBP M2 Max 32GM. MaxOS-Current
Chazz
Enthusiast
Dwight wrote:
What pleases more?
What makes more architecture?
One big one or two smaller ones?

It's a dilemma.
OK last comment on this tangent but please just check this out!!
Nattering nabob of negativism
2023 MBP M2 Max 32GM. MaxOS-Current
TomWaltz
Participant
Chazz wrote:
It was amazing to see the Vectorworks demo of schedules and Window and door building. So much more rational, intuitive and powerful. And it could still be a lot better.
That's something I like about VectorWorks. They try to make things relatively simple to do. I'm not saying they always succeed, but they try.
Tom Waltz
Anonymous
Not applicable
The main problem with Vectorworks is you can't create a usable building model with their software. Its modeling capabilities are amazing -- better than Revit's or AC's -- but it wouldn't make business sense to use it if you're already using Revit or AC.

No need to get hyped up about VW's objects or schedules -- I've used them myself and they are limited in capability.
TomWaltz
Participant
metanoia wrote:
The main problem with Vectorworks is you can't create a usable building model with their software. Its modeling capabilities are amazing -- better than Revit's or AC's -- but it wouldn't make business sense to use it if you're already using Revit or AC.

No need to get hyped up about VW's objects or schedules -- I've used them myself and they are limited in capability.
You're right. It is pretty limited from a BIM standpoint, but as a modeler and/or drafting program, it seems pretty nice.

It's one of those programs that I think could get there if they really tried, and could make decent competition for Revit and Archicad some day.
Tom Waltz
Chazz
Enthusiast
Getting back to the central thrust of this thread.....

I've been looking for a job lately and so I make regular visits to
craigslist and other online job resources. It's interesting to do a search on CAD names to see how many jobs are available for users of each tool Here's a snapshot of it today:

ArchiCAD = 18
Revit = 9
Vectorworks = 16
AutoCad = 293
ADT = 3

The CAD companies are famously cagey about releasing "installed base" numbers but this quick search at least gives a snapshot of the relative numbers, at least in this market.
Nattering nabob of negativism
2023 MBP M2 Max 32GM. MaxOS-Current
Anonymous
Not applicable
What I've heard through the Autodesk channel is that Revit is sitting at around 140,000 installed seats worldwide. Which is about 1/4 of the seats of Architectural Desktop out there! Where is AC at for installed seats... anyone know?

Still looking?

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